No one cares about NGS/Blackcipher anti-cheat?

[Sceles]

In addition to Easy Anti-Cheat the game has another anti-cheat called Nexon Game Security AKA Blackcipher.

Now what _good_ anti-cheats usually do is they work at kernel level(literally only VAC doesn't afaik) and detect programs that hook with anything related to the game as well as scan for known cheats in memory. They very often also collect your visited web addresses in anonymous format and combine it with data of other users for marketing purposes and such. This is a small privacy breach yes, but still understandable and what I personally consider to be within tolerable limits.

Problem is, NGS/Blackcipher doesn't anonymize the browsing data it collects. It logs every program you open and every site you visit along with http headers and timestamps in easily readable format and this data is easily accessible by Nexon's support personnel. According to some sites it also logs everything you type, including accounts, personal ids and bank card numbers.

[Last Jackdaw]

I mean i think you are going a bit conspiracy nut here.

But the people who care about black.cipher didn't install the game.

[Arieslia]

Originally posted by Sceles:

In addition to Easy Anti-Cheat the game has another anti-cheat called Nexon Game Security AKA Blackcipher.

Now what _good_ anti-cheats usually do is they work at kernel level(literally only VAC doesn't afaik) and detect programs that hook with anything related to the game as well as scan for known cheats in memory. They very often also collect your visited web addresses in anonymous format and combine it with data of other users for marketing purposes and such. This is a small privacy breach yes, but still understandable and what I personally consider to be within tolerable limits.

Problem is, NGS/Blackcipher doesn't anonymize the browsing data it collects. It logs every program you open and every site you visit along with http headers and timestamps in easily readable format and this data is easily accessible by Nexon's support personnel. According to some sites it also logs everything you type, including accounts, personal ids and bank card numbers.

no, no, no. kernel level anti cheat is the exact definition of bad anti cheat, because it runs at the KERNEL LEVEL, meaning if it so chooses, it can blue screen your PC by killing essential windows processes. and there are multiple types of kernel level anti cheat that do EXACTLY THAT on multiple occasions.

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Arieslia:

no, no, no. kernel level anti cheat is the exact definition of bad anti cheat, because it runs at the KERNEL LEVEL, meaning if it so chooses, it can blue screen your PC by killing essential windows processes. and there are multiple types of kernel level anti cheat that do EXACTLY THAT on multiple occasions.

Every popular anti-cheat besides VAC runs at kernel level and that's the only real way to prevent cheats properly because cheats itself can run at kernel level. Even anti-viruses run at kernel level to detect malware.

To be clear here, both EAS and Blackcipher run at kernel level. EAS however doesn't abuse that access to spy on users like Blackcipher, which sends everything to Nexon in easily readable format.

[Sparhawk]

well actually I would love to have even better anticheat, just to be able to play tha game without cheaters.. dont rly care if its kernel lvl or not... only cheaters can cry about this.

[Raynn von Valancius]

Originally posted by Arieslia:

Originally posted by Sceles:

In addition to Easy Anti-Cheat the game has another anti-cheat called Nexon Game Security AKA Blackcipher.

Now what _good_ anti-cheats usually do is they work at kernel level(literally only VAC doesn't afaik) and detect programs that hook with anything related to the game as well as scan for known cheats in memory. They very often also collect your visited web addresses in anonymous format and combine it with data of other users for marketing purposes and such. This is a small privacy breach yes, but still understandable and what I personally consider to be within tolerable limits.

Problem is, NGS/Blackcipher doesn't anonymize the browsing data it collects. It logs every program you open and every site you visit along with http headers and timestamps in easily readable format and this data is easily accessible by Nexon's support personnel. According to some sites it also logs everything you type, including accounts, personal ids and bank card numbers.

no, no, no. kernel level anti cheat is the exact definition of bad anti cheat, because it runs at the KERNEL LEVEL, meaning if it so chooses, it can blue screen your PC by killing essential windows processes. and there are multiple types of kernel level anti cheat that do EXACTLY THAT on multiple occasions.

Anticheats run at the kernel level. It literally how they remain effective at combating hacking. And they wouldn't need the anti-cheat to brick your system. They could do that off the normal game software because you agreed to install it if they really wanted to.

The questions to ask is how is Nexon collecting data, how they're storing it, and how they protect it. Privacy laws are vastly different in the US, EU, and SK so what they are using it for is vastly important.

BlackCipher is still relatively 'new' on the scene (its been around awhile but not widely used), which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Bad is that we may not know all the vulnerabilities yet, but there are no current CVEs that I can find.

There is a current project (coded Rebecca) which is working to try and identify any vulnerabilities or issues through reverse engineering it and they have brought up some legitimate concerns, especially in WHAT it records. It will log ip addresses, workgroups, windows versions, passwords, network credentials, hardware, hosts, libraries, current tabs in browsers, windows dialog, files, and more. It's also been rather resource intensive in the past which can slow down rigs considerably.

I tend to be overly distrustful of South Korean software, simply because their classification on privacy and protected data is vastly different then the US or the EU, but to each their own.

You could also just set up and run it off a virtual machine. I've done it with Helldivers 2. It's not all that difficult and does add another layer of protection, but regardless, if you're going to buy calibers to use in their store you're going to be putting some info in there that is going to be recorded. Recommend using a credit card or account which is purely for high risk buys. I have one just for that and it's set at $1,000. That way it's easy to deal with and shut off without hurting my daily functions.

[JinxTheWorld]

Ok.

So stop using windows and switch to Linux. Microsoft is way worse with your data than Nexon is.

Do I like that there are kernel level anti cheat? Heck no, but I'm not gonna go on a forum and cry about it. Either play the game or don't, but anyone who is playing the game does not care.

[Raynn von Valancius]

Originally posted by JinxTheWorld:

Ok.

So stop using windows and switch to Linux. Microsoft is way worse with your data than Nexon is.

Do I like that there are kernel level anti cheat? Heck no, but I'm not gonna go on a forum and cry about it. Either play the game or don't, but anyone who is playing the game does not care.

That really doesn't solve anything. Linux is still vulnerable. The only thing that makes it less vulnerable is that it's use isn't as widespread as windows and MAC so its a less tempting target for malicious elements.

You still need to follow good security protocols, much like you would on those other systems. And you're not totally wrong. Microsoft has had issues in the past, but when looking at the grand scheme of things and their overall AS, they do a solid job. Honestly, they aren't even in the top 25 when it comes to breaches based on individuals compromised and that's impressive considering how widespread window use is.

Now, Bill Gates is a complete nutter, but the people who work under him are actually fairly good at what they do.

[Norlin]

I don't see this as crying, thank you for making people aware so they are empowered to make informed decisions!

[Minterfresh]

Okay so close the game before bringing up personal info?

[Sceles]

Originally posted by JinxTheWorld:

Ok.

So stop using windows and switch to Linux. Microsoft is way worse with your data than Nexon is.

It's important how different companies store your data, who has access to it, what it's used for, are they transparent about what they collect, do they do security audits, and can you opt out of data collection or delete your data upon request. Microsoft handles all of this fairly well and in some areas even excellently. As for Nexon, we know very little. We partly know what they collect, and how some of it is what I would call private or security related data, how support has access to it and how there's no way to opt out. As for the rest, such as how securely it's contained and what's the chance of misuse by employees, we can only guess.

[Cpt.ButtHurt]

Why worry? I don't care at all. I don't have anything illegal or interesting to anyone but me. I'm not Special Agent 007 to hide anything. But if the anti-chit system will really cope with its tasks, then I'm only FOR it!

[Kitsuné]

If you uninstall the game, does this anticheat get completely deleted? If no, what are the traces you must delete to eliminate it completely?

[Sceles]

Originally posted by Cpt.ButtHurt:

Why worry? I don't care at all. I don't have anything illegal or interesting to anyone but me. I'm not Special Agent 007 to hide anything. But if the anti-chit system will really cope with its tasks, then I'm only FOR it!

You don't own a credit card or accounts that could be stolen or vandalized? You don't care if someone impersonates you and causes you to get into debt or does crime in your name and gets you into trouble? You REALLY don't care if someone sees all your personal pictures? These are simply some scenarios that could happen with poor security. People who say they don't care rarely even know everything that could happen. And the chance that something would happen is much much higher than you would think. Scamming, hacking and identity thefts are a huge business these days.

[dr_zampolit]

I played the beta up to the point they required it to be installed(think it was after the tutorial) and said nope. It does not remove everything, plus you have to give them consent to use your personal information forever. They'll make so much money on the information from you, they don't really need MicroTrans to make it. Plus...they'll be with you on your computer forever.

If they want to make a game, they need to remove it from being required. If they want to be greedy, well I guess...continue on and miss any chance of positive reviews and awards.