SBMM Must Be Removed

[SergeantShavedBalls]

The implementation of SBMM will ruin the multilplayer skill progression of this game just like it has done with many modern multiplayer shooters such as call of duty. The biggest glaring issue with SBMM that people often overlook is that it completely destroys your ability to see any improvement of your own skills. In any other hobby outside of modern multiplayer gaming, the more you practice said hobby, the more work you put in, the better you are than all of the people around you, right? So if you play first person shooters for a long time (in my case, two decades now), then you should generally expect to do better than most other players in first person shooters during most matches. The whole argument "yOu jUsT wAnT to pUbStOmP" is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I've put in the practice for years upon years upon years, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ right I should be winning most matches, it isn't pub stomping, it's logical. SBMM destroys that notion of progression by forcing your k/d and w/l ratios to 1.0. If you do really well, it just pairs you with more skilled players (or cheaters if you're really good). If you do poorly, then you are put with worse skilled players. Everyone ends up having the exact same difficulty experience. This forced equity is absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and should be reserved for ranked only where you can at least see your rank progressing.

[Raido]

"forced equity" is you playing with people at your skill level? am i missing something about this discussion?

[Heatnixx]

SBMM is a great feature for most game types. Usually games where your game sense matters more than your individual skill like MOBAs.

Sadly, shooter isn't one of them, as a 50% winrate basically plateaus you into lobbies where you spawn, kill someone and die, over and over. It's why most shooters become tedious and repetitive after the matchmaker gets a feel for your position in the queue.

[Shrootfarms]

get gud

[e Zinc]

I feel like the usual arguments against SBMM don't work here, primarily because it's a tight objective-based team shooter and you're very reliant on your team. If you removed SBMM, it'd mean you would have really bad teammates too.

In Call of Duty, having bad teammates + bad enemies = a fun time because you aren't really reliant on your teammates' performance. You can force 1v1s much easier.

In The Finals, having bad teammates + bad enemies means you could get super unlucky and have 2 other teams gang up on you with a bunch of utility. Or, 3 bad players team up and use shields + heals vs. you which means you lose the objective.

Of course, there are some gamemodes like Dominion in Call of Duty that make you more reliant on your team.

[SergeantShavedBalls]

Originally posted by Raido:

"forced equity" is you playing with people at your skill level? am i missing something about this discussion?

Forcing the distribution of k/d and w/l toward 1.0 is forced equity, yes. Random pairings go both ways though - sometimes you play against people who are wayyy better than you, which can be an interesting learning experience. SBMM denies that as well. The thing you are missing is that people should have a clear choice between playing casual (random pairings) and ranked (skill based pairings). It's really not that much to ask.

[SergeantShavedBalls]

Originally posted by Heatnixx:

SBMM is a great feature for most game types. Usually games where your game sense matters more than your individual skill like MOBAs.

Sadly, shooter isn't one of them, as a 50% winrate basically plateaus you into lobbies where you spawn, kill someone and die, over and over. It's why most shooters become tedious and repetitive after the matchmaker gets a feel for your position in the queue.

Exactly, it doesn't work for shooters at all. With random pairings you at least have some variety and spice to your matches. Some you get wrecked, some you do the wrecking. If you're better than average, then you get to do the wrecking more often. That's the whole point of playing a game - to get better! You also never get to play against significantly better players, which can be a great learning experience. Whenever you are forced toward that 50% win rate by skill based lobbies, the sense of progression is completely ruined and the game just becomes a tedious, meaningless grind.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by SergeantShavedBalls:

Originally posted by Raido:

"forced equity" is you playing with people at your skill level? am i missing something about this discussion?

Forcing the distribution of k/d and w/l toward 1.0 is forced equity, yes. The thing you are missing is that people should have a clear choice between playing casual (random pairings) and ranked (skill based pairings). It's really not that much to ask.

the notion of casual being completely uneven games that at are rofl stomps are silly.

The literal only argument people can make is "I want to stomp noobs, its not fair that i have to fight people roguhly my skil level"

[Wowsers]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Originally posted by SergeantShavedBalls:

Forcing the distribution of k/d and w/l toward 1.0 is forced equity, yes. The thing you are missing is that people should have a clear choice between playing casual (random pairings) and ranked (skill based pairings). It's really not that much to ask.

the notion of casual being completely uneven games that at are rofl stomps are silly.

The literal only argument people can make is "I want to stomp noobs, its not fair that i have to fight people roguhly my skil level"

Having friends of different skill levels is a nightmare for matchmaking as well, theres a reason most ranked modes don't let players party up if the rank gap is too big. Thats another argument for having more loose sbmm in casual modes. Its not always just about stomping noobs, playing against higher level opponents can be a good learning experience as well. I understand getting stomped over and over is upsetting though and devs need to find a way to retain their newer players especially since you can't jump straight into ranked in this game.

[Sn4pFPS]

git gud noob!

[Zouls]

Originally posted by Wowsers:

Originally posted by Zouls:

the notion of casual being completely uneven games that at are rofl stomps are silly.

The literal only argument people can make is "I want to stomp noobs, its not fair that i have to fight people roguhly my skil level"

Having friends of different skill levels is a nightmare for matchmaking as well, theres a reason most ranked modes don't let players party up if the rank gap is too big. Thats another argument for having more loose sbmm in casual modes. Its not always just about stomping noobs, playing against higher level opponents can be a good learning experience as well. I understand getting stomped over and over is upsetting though and devs need to find a way to retain their newer players especially since you can't jump straight into ranked in this game.

but you still can play with your friends, and you can play it as serious or not as you want.

Again the entire argument that SBMM forces you to tryhard and sweat every game is just a massive strawman, as simply if you ♥♥♥♥ around and try things out you will drop and it will become more even and closer.

combine that with advocating for not having sbmm which just means way swingier games and more losses, which again it seems most people always just have a completely unrealistic expectation of how the game would run without it.

[SergeantShavedBalls]

Originally posted by Zouls:

Originally posted by Wowsers:

Having friends of different skill levels is a nightmare for matchmaking as well, theres a reason most ranked modes don't let players party up if the rank gap is too big. Thats another argument for having more loose sbmm in casual modes. Its not always just about stomping noobs, playing against higher level opponents can be a good learning experience as well. I understand getting stomped over and over is upsetting though and devs need to find a way to retain their newer players especially since you can't jump straight into ranked in this game.

but you still can play with your friends, and you can play it as serious or not as you want.

Again the entire argument that SBMM forces you to tryhard and sweat every game is just a massive strawman, as simply if you ♥♥♥♥ around and try things out you will drop and it will become more even and closer.

combine that with advocating for not having sbmm which just means way swingier games and more losses, which again it seems most people always just have a completely unrealistic expectation of how the game would run without it.

Where in my post did I make the argument that SBMM forces you to tryhard and sweat every game? I never said that once. You could very easily just play chill and keep falling into lower brackets by losing a lot. That's what reverse boosting does. I am simply arguing that it ruins the feeling of skill progression because it pushes everyone toward a 1.0 w/l and 1.0 k/d.

Yes games would be swingier. That's the point. Variety is more fun. This is how FPS used to be in the early 2000's. If you want to have skill based games just play ranked!!! Why is it so controversial to offer the choice between ranked (skill based) and casual (random pairings)??

[DerFritz]

people in here cant even properly play the chill cash modes right and go instant for useless deathmatch

i say keep sbmm in because at last you can have fun killing this noodles...

[Doctor Mantis Toboggan]

the whole SBMM thing is tiring

it has its place in gaming: RANKED MODES! Competitive modes!

casual / quick play should be based on ping alone. random players for random levels of skill variation

[DerFritz]

Originally posted by the Golden God:

the whole SBMM thing is tiring

it has its place in gaming: RANKED MODES! Competitive modes!

casual / quick play should be based on ping alone. random players for random levels of skill variation

hahaha alone in my little rounds this night i had so much potatoes with no understanding of everything at all after having so nice teams...

so no

sbmm is clearly not the problem...its the " i dont care" mindset of people

[Doctor Mantis Toboggan]

i mean i get why there is SBMM.

my buddy was new to the game and we had him host our party for his first games.

i got 20-30 kills in each game lol