a question to players that finished nightmare mode (solved)

[veelqnexus]

hello. I can feel that sp income is very low on nightmare so i was wondering if sp income upgrade is worth it here? I already grabbed a few cheap blessings and one speeding up boost meter replenishment on the way (I am before creeper, it's quite far into the game I guess for sp upgrade investment but considering how much I suck vs bosses and how much I have to grind to defeat them on nightmare I'm still considering it - took me 8h to finish game on hard, and I already hit 12h on nightmare before creeper!).

[Debrel]

If I remember right, the SP income upgrade does nothing on nightmare

[Melon Sc//ence]

To be fair, the SP never matters on Nightmare difficulty, as most of the blessings are disabled as well (SP cost, status reduction, etc.).

My SP amount when reaching top floor of the tower is 50K - 40K -50K respectively for Yunica - Hugo - Toal. Never use any blessings or armor upgrades (even if I did by accident they are useless)

What matter is your level, one level difference could be between "pain" and "shrug". Usually it is recommended to fight at the same levels of the bosses, if you cannot handle them then go 1-2 level higher (do note that the exp punish will be a lot quicker too, down to 1 exp if trying to go higher). And yes, make sure you get all weapon upgrade ores as possible.

[veelqnexus]

All right. thx guys! What about skill and boost recovery upgrades tho? Are they disabled on nightmare as well?

@Melin Sc//ence Yeah I can feel big difference with every level. Also, don't worry I always pick up all skill and weapon upgrades. Tbh I always pick up all items ;-)

Part of my struggle on nightmare and difference in time might be also that on hard I played as Toal (who imo is easiest to play as) and now I'm playing as Yunica (who is probably hardest - but I like her "will smash axe in your face" style hehe).

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

All right. thx guys! What about skill and boost recovery upgrades tho? Are they disabled on nightmare as well?

Yes, all disabled, even the Celcetan elixir that increases HP only go by 1 too.

[veelqnexus]

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

All right. thx guys! What about skill and boost recovery upgrades tho? Are they disabled on nightmare as well?

Yes, all disabled, even the Celcetan elixir that increases HP only go by 1 too.

Good to know. Shame, game doesn't tell it before starting nightmare run tho.

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

Yes, all disabled, even the Celcetan elixir that increases HP only go by 1 too.

Good to know. Shame, game doesn't tell it before starting nightmare run tho.

Actually there is a bit of effect from the skill recovery blessings from older threads, but they are very minimal, thus most people consider them as disabled.

Well, it's not so much that even. My tests indicate that initially, it's about ~2 seconds to charge a skill. Level 1 is ~1.8 seconds, which is barely noticeable especially in a battle like this where you're (probably) primarily on defense, not offense. (Level 2 is ~1.6 seconds to charge, and as mentioned above, Level 3 is ~1.3 seconds.) 

But I guess there is no harm in trying it out (aside the cost of time).

Nonetheless, it is better for you to get used to playing with no blessings, as you will have to do NM runs with EX characters again + 8 NM Boss Rushes (for 100% completion if you are aiming for that), but by then you will know the layout of the tower - to know which areas to phase through and which areas to easily grind for quick level. The rest is only up to your boss pattern learning and reaction skill, which will carve on you deeper the more you playing.

I suck at Origin too, but you can see the playtime for NM run improve:
Yunica NM - 15h45
Yunica EX NM - 6h52
Hugo NM - 11h25
Hugo EX NM - 4h51
Toal NM - 7h28
Toal EX NM - 4h38

Therefore, your best weapon against bosses is practice

[veelqnexus]

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

Good to know. Shame, game doesn't tell it before starting nightmare run tho.

Actually there is a bit of effect from the skill recovery blessings from older threads, but they are very minimal, thus most people consider them as disabled.

Well, it's not so much that even. My tests indicate that initially, it's about ~2 seconds to charge a skill. Level 1 is ~1.8 seconds, which is barely noticeable especially in a battle like this where you're (probably) primarily on defense, not offense. (Level 2 is ~1.6 seconds to charge, and as mentioned above, Level 3 is ~1.3 seconds.) 

But I guess there is no harm in trying it out (aside the cost of time).

Nonetheless, it is better for you to get used to playing with no blessings, as you will have to do NM runs with EX characters again + 8 NM Boss Rushes (for 100% completion if you are aiming for that), but by then you will know the layout of the tower - to know which areas to phase through and which areas to easily grind for quick level. The rest is only up to your boss pattern learning and reaction skill, which will carve on you deeper the more you playing.

I suck at Origin too, but you can see the playtime for NM run improve:
Yunica NM - 15h45
Yunica EX NM - 6h52
Hugo NM - 11h25
Hugo EX NM - 4h51
Toal NM - 7h28
Toal EX NM - 4h38

Therefore, your best weapon against bosses is practice :ys9_whitecat:

thx again ;-) just got the creeper, wish me luck with the rest of the game hehe

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

thx again ;-) just got the creeper, wish me luck with the rest of the game hehe

Sure, good luck! , if you are stuck with anything feel free to ask, I will try my best to help.

[Berahlen]

I think I took the first round of armor upgrades, then the jump stun, and...maybe a magic recharge? It's super marginal.

[bojangles]

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

Originally posted by veelqnexus:

Good to know. Shame, game doesn't tell it before starting nightmare run tho.

Actually there is a bit of effect from the skill recovery blessings from older threads, but they are very minimal, thus most people consider them as disabled.

Well, it's not so much that even. My tests indicate that initially, it's about ~2 seconds to charge a skill. Level 1 is ~1.8 seconds, which is barely noticeable especially in a battle like this where you're (probably) primarily on defense, not offense. (Level 2 is ~1.6 seconds to charge, and as mentioned above, Level 3 is ~1.3 seconds.) 

But I guess there is no harm in trying it out (aside the cost of time).

Nonetheless, it is better for you to get used to playing with no blessings, as you will have to do NM runs with EX characters again + 8 NM Boss Rushes (for 100% completion if you are aiming for that), but by then you will know the layout of the tower - to know which areas to phase through and which areas to easily grind for quick level. The rest is only up to your boss pattern learning and reaction skill, which will carve on you deeper the more you playing.

I suck at Origin too, but you can see the playtime for NM run improve:
Yunica NM - 15h45
Yunica EX NM - 6h52
Hugo NM - 11h25
Hugo EX NM - 4h51
Toal NM - 7h28
Toal EX NM - 4h38

Therefore, your best weapon against bosses is practice :ys9_whitecat:

If you're going for all the achievements, you only need to beat the game on Nightmare once with each character, not every version of every character. I did Hugo on Nightmare and Hugo EX on Very Easy, for example.

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by Bojangles:

If you're going for all the achievements, you only need to beat the game on Nightmare once with each character, not every version of every character. I did Hugo on Nightmare and Hugo EX on Very Easy, for example.

To unlock Yunica outfit to appear in Bonus shop, you need to defeat Story Mode on Nightmare (NM) with all 3 characters and their EX versions (and if it still does not show up, meaning 8 NM boss rushes is needed too).

To be exact:

I had 3 Nightmare runs with base characters, then 3 Very Easy runs with EX characters to easily get "Truly Gifted - obtain all blessings for everyone" achievement. The outfit did not appear on the Bonus Shop.

Then I did all 8 NM boss rushes to get Caress of Steel achievement, yet the outfit did not appear on the Bonus Shop.

Only when I had to do marathon 3 NM runs for all 3 EX versions, the outfit did appear on the Bonus Shop.

Edit: But again that is based on my experience, after all there is really no clear answer on how to unlock the outfit to begin with, some say you need to clear all difficulties with eveyone (which I don't believe), others just need NM Story runs on all characters and versions (which worked for me).

So I would say OP done 3 NM runs with all normal characters first, then 3 Very Easy runs with all EX versions to test Bojangles theory again (well to do All blessings achievement the fastest way too), and if the outfit does not unlock, considered OP get totally Fact up, prepared to face 3 extra NM runs.

[bojangles]

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

I had 3 Nightmare runs with base characters, then 3 Very Easy runs with EX characters to easily get "Truly Gifted - obtain all blessings for everyone" achievement. The outfit did not appear on the Bonus Shop.

Did you buy Arena 7 and Adol + Adol EX in the bonus shop? You have to buy everything in the bonus shop before the outfit will appear, in addition to beating the game with every character's EX version.

I only beat the game 3 times on Nightmare. It was with Hugo, Yunica EX, and Toal EX. After I finished my last EX playthrough, I bought Arena 7 in the bonus shop, and I can't remember if the outfit immediately showed up after or if it showed up after I beat Arena 7.

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by Bojangles:

\
Did you buy Arena 7 and Adol + Adol EX in the bonus shop? You have to buy everything in the bonus shop before the outfit will appear, in addition to beating the game with every character's EX version.

I only beat the game 3 times on Nightmare. It was with Hugo, Yunica EX, and Toal EX. After I finished my last EX playthrough, I bought Arena 7 in the bonus shop, and I can't remember if the outfit immediately showed up after or if it showed up after I beat Arena 7.

Yes, bought everything possible on the Bonus Shop at that time - all areas except lv 7, all versions of characters. Only when I had to finish EX NM runs that area 7 appeared, done it and then Yunica outfit showed up.

[bojangles]

Arena 7 should unlock after you beat the game once with each character on Nightmare, so I dunno what happened in your case

Are you sure you're not misremembering something? On your achievement history, it says you got the Pikkardon achievement an hour-ish after you got the You've Made Your Point achievement. That means you either didn't beat the game on Nightmare with one of the base characters or the game didn't count it. The last EX playthrough you did on Nightmare was what would've gotten you the You've Made Your Point achievement, since you said you played the EX characters on Nightmare after playing the base characters on Nightmare and EX characters on Very Easy.

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by Bojangles:

Arena 7 should unlock after you beat the game once with each character on Nightmare, so I dunno what happened in your case

Are you sure you're not misremembering something? On your achievement history, it says you got the Pikkardon achievement an hour-ish after you got the You've Made Your Point achievement. That means you either didn't beat the game on Nightmare with one of the base characters or the game didn't count it. The last EX playthrough you did on Nightmare was what would've gotten you the You've Made Your Point achievement, since you said you played the EX characters on Nightmare after playing the base characters on Nightmare and EX characters on Very Easy.

Well I might misremember about PIkkardon as the achievements are not shown in time order properly. Yet even with Area 7 unlocked (on Oct 2019) I couldn't get the outfit as you can see, that I had to wait til Dec 2019 because the time gap between them is when I went NM runs with EX versions again. Oh well, just consider my bad luck then.