Aladdin's First Ultimate Feels Bad

[DeMasked]

I get that you wanted something unique for Aladdin but tying his Trait and Ultimate(s) to Dream Crystals feels wrong to me. Maybe some people like this character, just not for me.

Not sure how I would change this character. Hopefully his second ultimate will be better though I read that it also gives Dream Crystals when upgraded for some odd reason...

[LazyBard]

Aladdin is ok, though I would make dream crystal price for ult much cheaper, his second ult is much better since u become invulnerable for the duration of the ult, and for ult upgrade, well, not all upgrades feel as strong as others and definitely need more balancing

[Duze]

It's still the strongest ultimate in the game.
It's easy enough to get to the point where using your trait give you more gold than the price of the ultimate.
And after that there's just no limit to Alladin power except time.
And by time I mean your own patience, not the game's timer.
You can use your ultimate as many times as you like before leaving the starting area of a map. With a good CD reduction you can ult every 20sec
So even without stagnating in the start zone, you'll be able to use your trait a bunch of times.

The Heal version can avoid a co-op wipe, which is also very strong in itself.
The Dmg versoin is kinda usefull to clean a event fast, but it's clearly not worth the other options.

[Aetemes]

Originally posted by Duze:

It's still the strongest ultimate in the game.
It's easy enough to get to the point where using your trait give you more gold than the price of the ultimate.
And after that there's just no limit to Alladin power except time.
And by time I mean your own patience, not the game's timer.
You can use your ultimate as many times as you like before leaving the starting area of a map. With a good CD reduction you can ult every 20sec
So even without stagnating in the start zone, you'll be able to use your trait a bunch of times.

The Heal version can avoid a co-op wipe, which is also very strong in itself.
The Dmg versoin is kinda usefull to clean a event fast, but it's clearly not worth the other options.

I have to agree with all of this, like his second ult, it's a cute alternative, I think ok if you're playing solo. But how can you guys complain about an ult that allows you to have saved up charges that you can fire back to back of very strong versatile effects, and you can really fixate fully on gaining shards/wish charges and make your self and your team stronger.

It also really plays into the concept of Aladdin "running into riches" in a flavourful way, where he out of all characters I feel really can choose to fixate on dream shard increasing traits like lep coins or whatever, and actually boost him self and everyone around him...you're a walking mini grimoire node, an aoe rez, his aoe damage wish thing has great stagger bar damage too, and again if you have charges you can spam it. You can apply vulnerable on base level.

I think Aladdin is harder and not as "fun" to solo with but...honestly I think easier than Wukong to "master", although if Wukong starts rolling it's much easier to clear screens lol.

I am not sure but I think his enchanted attack damage might have gotten nerfed a bit, and his "storm vortex trait" effect is really much weaker now, that along with the super nerfs to crit damage bonuses you get from his wishes, does make him not as easy to just lol around using purely wishes, without investing anything into his actual power. That does hurt.

So it is rough feeling impactful if you don't get lucky with things that allow you to accumulate trait charges if that's what you want to play around, and when he's solo his weak cleaving can be aggravating, but again I think fair given what he can do overall, I dunno.

I think he's a different and unique in his own way due to his wishes mechanic, the carpet really..feels ok, but boring in comparison.

[DeMasked]

Eh I still feel like the Trait / Ultimate feels bad to play with. I had a run on normal difficulty where I used his ultimate like... twice? Yay?

To me I don't like the design of the character in some regards but that may just be me. I'm sure other people like playing with an ultimate that eats up your currency or sits dead in play for the majority of a game because you want to progress your power via the shop.

Finally unlocked the second ult so I'll try that.

I feel like the Trait should pertain only to Aladdin and not other players. Start with 1 charge and make it just spawn the item that would give a bit of regen and then the choice of stats. Subsequent Nights would give additional charges of the trait.

Ultimate should unleash the Jinniya in a large area that would deal damage over time, heal over time to allies and apply Ignite, Chill and Bleed initially once. Upgrade could have an increased area by like 15% and reapply those status effects an additional time (start and end).

Second Ultimate upgrade shouldn't give Dream Crystal. Maybe enemies become marked by the Jinniya in which case after the Ultimate they all become Weak and Vulnerable for a time. Or at the start near where your character is you do an AoE Vulnerability and those hit by the ultimate are weakened after the Ultimate is done.

Likely it is far too late to change this character. I don't like the idea of tying Currency to Trait / Ultimate. Just my opinion.

edit: Everything else about Aladdin I feel is good. The combo of Enchanted Blades + Ring Jinn is interesting. The Jump Vulnerability is useful and the Enchantment points system is rather neat.

[LazyBard]

Originally posted by Aetemes:

Originally posted by Duze:

It's still the strongest ultimate in the game.
It's easy enough to get to the point where using your trait give you more gold than the price of the ultimate.
And after that there's just no limit to Alladin power except time.
And by time I mean your own patience, not the game's timer.
You can use your ultimate as many times as you like before leaving the starting area of a map. With a good CD reduction you can ult every 20sec
So even without stagnating in the start zone, you'll be able to use your trait a bunch of times.

The Heal version can avoid a co-op wipe, which is also very strong in itself.
The Dmg versoin is kinda usefull to clean a event fast, but it's clearly not worth the other options.

I have to agree with all of this, like his second ult, it's a cute alternative, I think ok if you're playing solo. But how can you guys complain about an ult that allows you to have saved up charges that you can fire back to back of very strong versatile effects, and you can really fixate fully on gaining shards/wish charges and make your self and your team stronger.

It also really plays into the concept of Aladdin "running into riches" in a flavourful way, where he out of all characters I feel really can choose to fixate on dream shard increasing traits like lep coins or whatever, and actually boost him self and everyone around him...you're a walking mini grimoire node, an aoe rez, his aoe damage wish thing has great stagger bar damage too, and again if you have charges you can spam it. You can apply vulnerable on base level.

I think Aladdin is harder and not as "fun" to solo with but...honestly I think easier than Wukong to "master", although if Wukong starts rolling it's much easier to clear screens lol.

I am not sure but I think his enchanted attack damage might have gotten nerfed a bit, and his "storm vortex trait" effect is really much weaker now, that along with the super nerfs to crit damage bonuses you get from his wishes, does make him not as easy to just lol around using purely wishes, without investing anything into his actual power. That does hurt.

So it is rough feeling impactful if you don't get lucky with things that allow you to accumulate trait charges if that's what you want to play around, and when he's solo his weak cleaving can be aggravating, but again I think fair given what he can do overall, I dunno.

I think he's a different and unique in his own way due to his wishes mechanic, the carpet really..feels ok, but boring in comparison.

The issue with Aladdin first ult is that it costs 150! shards, which is almost the cost of a talent legendary upgrade, and the items you get from trait are laughably bad since they were nerfed to the ground. Thus you should choose either you spend your shards on ult charges or upgrade your talents, you can't do both. In my opinion the ult price should be halved and the quality of trait items should me much higher

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by LazyBard:

The issue with Aladdin first ult is that it costs 150! shards, which is almost the cost of an ability legendary upgrade, and the items you get from trait are laughably bad since they were nerved to the ground. Thus you should choose either you spend your shards on ult charges or upgrade your abilities, you can't do both. In my opinion the ult price should be halved and the quality of trait items should me much higher

Or get rid of the Dream Crystal prices all together... If you want to represent a wish via gold or something - show gold or jewels. Like have them swirl around while shredding enemies or something like that...

[Duze]

Originally posted by LazyBard:

The issue with Aladdin first ult is that it costs 150! shards, which is almost the cost of a talent legendary upgrade, and the items you get from trait are laughably bad since they were nerfed to the ground. Thus you should choose either you spend your shards on ult charges or upgrade your talents, you can't do both. In my opinion the ult price should be halved and the quality of trait items should me much higher

You CAN do both, just need a few item for that like Leprechaun coin & Hope Diamond if lucky.
It's quite simple to reach the stage where your Trait earns you more than 150 Shards.
And from then on, not only can you utl as much as your CD allows it,
But you'll also be able to upgrade all your skills & empty all stores.
Not forgetting the main effect of the trait,
Last time I was able to put myself at 100% critical chance & +700% critical damage only with the trait. This is not weak. ^^

[LazyBard]

Originally posted by Duze:

Originally posted by LazyBard:

The issue with Aladdin first ult is that it costs 150! shards, which is almost the cost of a talent legendary upgrade, and the items you get from trait are laughably bad since they were nerfed to the ground. Thus you should choose either you spend your shards on ult charges or upgrade your talents, you can't do both. In my opinion the ult price should be halved and the quality of trait items should me much higher

You CAN do both, just need a few item for that like Leprechaun coin & Hope Diamond if lucky.
It's quite simple to reach the stage where your Trait earns you more than 150 Shards.
And from then on, not only can you utl as much as your CD allows it,
But you'll also be able to upgrade all your skills & empty all stores.
Not forgetting the main effect of the trait,
Last time I was able to put myself at 100% critical chance & +700% critical damage only with the trait. This is not weak. ^^

The key word here is IF, you can't plan your build ahead around shards cause you never know will you be lucky enough to get the items you need for that build to work, especially how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ reroll system is working at moment. Theoretically of course such strategy looks very strong, though I personally was never so lucky

[bigm17]

I forget about his trait most of the time after the initial use of it, and end runs with extra trait charges cause I don't find it impactful. Never gotten lucky enough to utilize it to where it works well in a run.

[SpringLeaf]

i mean its not a fun ultimate, cuz really all you do is spam it when ever its available to get more wishes. But the wishes themselves are really really strong. You can go for just party buffs, Do damage or Full Heal/Revive. In multiplayer games where you are spending a lot of feathers, you can just leave all the feathers to alladin and he revives everyone with a wish. You can also Revive people across the map. So it's pretty broken if you think about it. Now Design wise, Often times all your gold goes to doing more damage with the E punch, had a friend that was doing 1500 flat damage with the punch, She can still do a lot of damage if your not upgrading talents. So not having a damage ultimate is not a big deal. i'm not sure how good the damage wish is cuz we dont usually use it.

My friends dont like it, but i like to use the heal wish before someone dies. I get that its better to just wait but often times things quicly get out of hand when people start dropping. Like one time i didnt do it, i quickly died and no one was able to revive me. I had like 9 wishes i didnt get to use and that run was lost because of that death.

[Aetemes]

Welp, now that it won't interact with Leper coins cause you can't re-roll special after 1.0, tbh I am probably not picking it - I think?

I don't think I'll have enough shards to feel like it's worth affording its upkeep, while sacrificing upgrading my talents/wells/whatever for it, unless I get hope diamond, I guess.

Dunno if'll even bother with Aladdin in coop personally, the hilarity of "sharing endless riches" was his appeal to me xD.

[Black Hammer]

To summarize my feelings on it from elsewhere:

It isn't bad, but it sure feels bad. Aladdin's abilities are too easily linked, leading him to feel very dull compared to other characters.

His Wish talent is only going fired off infrequently. His first ult eats money you'd normally use for buying items and upgrades; instead, you get less stuff than everyone else in exchange for getting to use your talent more, but you're sacrificing your talent slot, your ult slot, and a giant pile of money for the sake of getting Wishes.

Then you probably throw swords and flip to catch them, which links two more of your abilities.

You wind up with a character who spends a lot less time activating abilities or attacking than anyone else.

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

It isn't bad, but it sure feels bad.

Exactly. The actual abilities from the wishes are fine but the implementation imo isn't.

I just feel like a character who doesn't have an Ultimate because I don't want to waste currency on it and tying it to the trait just feels off to me. Don't think I'll ever pick the first ult because when I play a game I play to have fun and dealing with a restriction on the ultimate isn't really fun for me.

Now if his Trait had 3 charges for each level and the Ultimate was something else and didn't cost any currency? That I'd be fine with.

[Design Frame]

I definitely recognize that it's powerful, but my mindset is always, why sacrifice the long-term for the short-term? It doesn't sound logical to me, so I only use the ult for emergencies and I can't rationalize using the ult in any other circumstance.