Co-Op scaling

[TiedInBone]

I have 100+ hours played, mostly solo and I love the game. I have played at the higher difficulties and find Darkness a comfortable difficulty. So I was very surprised to find even Adventure quite tough in 2 player Co-Op; the extra health and stagger on non-boss enemies slows progression through a zone way too much, as well as making it tougher it makes it less fun as you end up things like spiders and phoenixes for way too long. I would please ask you to look at re-adjust the multiplayer scaling of regular enemies (bosses felt fine) so I can enjoy this game with friends as much as I do solo.

[Impero]

They just need to add multiplayer pause and the game is perfect. The time loss from choosing talents and items, rerolling, and teleporting adds up so fast.

[Kappa]

Originally posted by Impero:

They just need to add multiplayer pause and the game is perfect. The time loss from choosing talents and items, rerolling, and teleporting adds up so fast.

This is definitely a thing, but it won't be able to match the sp no matter what.
Best would be, imo, to put the pause game not as a sp option but as a positive afflix for custom mode.

This way both sp and mp will have to carefully think how much time they want to invest in choosing a feat ( which means both game mode would be treated the same ).

Apart from that, mp difficulty is fine to me ( and I am glad it's way harder than solo play ).

[Rankiry]

Mp difficulty is cool, what can be better then to struggle with your bro, even better in public.
But there is also meta combos to ruin the fun, what a pity. Game in solo is just a boredomefest where eveything goes as planned - easy and predictable.

[Ghost RepliCant]

Easy way to integrate Multiplayer pause would be to just halt the game when players level up and are out of combat or at interactables. Obviously no pausing during combat. Add a timer of about, let's say 5 to 10 seconds (to prevent griefing) before the game resumes regularly for all players, whoever didn't make their pick once the timer runs out can still level up/use the interactable manually just as usual. No idea why this isn't a thing in a game that's so focussed on fighting the clock.

[onyxiia]

Only have 4 hours playtime so far with my partner and we haven't been able to manage the end boss yet on adventure level. We waste so much time trying to fight the smaller mobs/pick things up/choose talents/shards that this game is becoming less enjoyable the more we try it.

I haven''t played solo but we have watched a lot of YouTube videos about the game and I think there is definitely something off about the MP experience.

[DJDiceZ]

What i really wanna know is who the ♥♥♥♥ thought it's a good idea to make the final boss's laser attack go through invincibility frames?

[WiggleTheKobold]

watching old clips compared to how it plays now,
i see WHY they changed the scaling so much but they 100% went overboard with it.

old MP had almost no ramping on enemies so it was just "solo play+3 other players"

each player could sweep a 4th of the map with ease without needing any good rng at all.

NOW unless you have a cracked start it just doesn't make sense to split up too much because the time it takes to kill things alone is so much slower than just steamrolling one location in pairs/all together.

[Amrehlu]

The MP scaling is so bad, I feel like I've been scammed. I want to refund it, but it takes more than 2 hours to fully come to the realization that this game is poorly made trash and it's not just us being bad/new.

It's such a rough feeling, this game is a trap for anyone other than friendless losers. You're punished if you try to enjoy it with friends.

[Plumber]

4p Adventure is MUCH harder than 1p Nightmare. 2p is in a decent spot thankfully…

While it’s possible to win in 3p/4p scaling, it hasn’t been fun for me or my group. The enemies’ stagger thresholds are extreme, spawn in incredible droves, and have their telegraphs obfuscated by the cacophony of player visual effects and sheer quantity of enemies, which has predictably disastrous implications when their attack power goes through the roof too. Major attacks from specific bosses can straight-up instakill you. Couple this with revives being interrupted by slight breezes and most of the advantage of multiplayer is limited to stacking a bunch of buff/debuff synergies and MAYBE reviving a teammate if it coincides with a stagger - but with how bloated everything is, if even a single person so much as goes down during a grimoire or quest, it’s frequently impossible to clear before you time out.

There are some clever plays you can make like starting a tumor fight to revive someone who has been downed, and many ability interactions beg you to play with someone that can capitalize on them further, but unless you’re a character like Beowulf and can scale with the enemies by eating their damage, asking for more, and reflecting all of it back, 3p/4p is in this weird spot where splitting up for more than vision is generally a bad idea unless the run’s started snowballing hard, sticking together is also a bad idea unless you can stack damage multipliers, and awkwardly alternating between together and not as random stagger-reliant enemies like crabs require is too much wasted time, which is wasted xp/items, which is wasted time, which […]. It requires a level of finesse, luck, and pigeonholed damage-stacking talent/item building that severely cramps the experience, makes inexperienced players feel like deadweight, and is ironically extremely hostile to playing new characters, especially since the better talents and abilities that can cascade hard enough to keep up with the scaling are tucked away behind rank unlocks.

Sadly, the custom modifier that turns off the timer doesn’t really help since being overleveled also lets YOU wipe the floor with everything even if you aren’t using a broken build like coin+egg stacking. It’s victim to the usual roguelike spinning plates act where the numbers must arbitrarily go up, but the window in which the player and enemy power levels are anywhere close to equal is so tenuous and volatile that you’re heavily incentivized to stack it in your favor instead of taking unusual items and talents that might be fun to play around but don’t treadmill fast enough…

[Barbaclesoup]

I wouldn't mind if they allowed for a custom modifier that allows you to set your own scaling.

But, personally I am a fan of the difficulty as it is now, once you play enough it's definitely manageable.

I played a bunch solo then stated playing w/ randoms on nightmare because solo just became too easy. The game can be really difficult if you all don't pull your own weight. But, if everyone knows what they're doing it's an easy win.

I feel like that's how it should be though. If you want to carry one of your buddies through play Aladdin or Melusine. I revived one of my friends like 15 times or something one play through, lol (on nightmare, we still lost tho).

[SyD]

Thanks for the info!

I was planning to buy two copies for my fiancé and me, but this post gave me pause. I hope the developers understand that this kind of imbalance can drive away potential customers!

I'll wish this and check back on the next sale. :)

[Astral Projection]

Yep 3-4 player definitely harder. Needs to be fixed.

[LordSithaniel]

Originally posted by SyD:

Thanks for the info!

I was planning to buy two copies for my fiancé and me, but this post gave me pause. I hope the developers understand that this kind of imbalance can drive away potential customers!

I'll wish this and check back on the next sale. :)

two player coop is totally doable. Its almost as easy as 1 player. The problem is when playing 3 the above mentioned issues occur. It got to the point where my 2 friends barely play together with me because they hate the difficulty spike for 3 player.

[Kaptain K. Rool]

Originally posted by LordSithaniel:

Originally posted by SyD:

Thanks for the info!

I was planning to buy two copies for my fiancé and me, but this post gave me pause. I hope the developers understand that this kind of imbalance can drive away potential customers!

I'll wish this and check back on the next sale. :)

two player coop is totally doable. Its almost as easy as 1 player. The problem is when playing 3 the above mentioned issues occur. It got to the point where my 2 friends barely play together with me because they hate the difficulty spike for 3 player.

Aye, also have had no issues on 2 playa' co-op. Mayhaps use 1 er 2 featha's between us durin' a full run. And we be new ta' th' game, jus' started two days ago

[IceCoolTea]

Devs please look at scaling.