Gepepetto: Twin Dummies needs a buff

[Lord_Abaddon]

Twin dummies: 55% chance base to spawn two dummies on trait,

It's okay buuut

Dummball : special creates a dummy and increases special's damage on use.

as far as spawning dummy's go dummy ball is superior due to the ability to get additional uses through items and it does damage. I know there's a talent that allows trait to do damage on spawn but either way I Dummyball is superior.

Twin dummies I think would be fine if it added an additonal maximum dummy or even just combined it with Large family.

[Sharp Hand Joe]

Yeah. Why have a chance of extra dummy if you can have a guaranteed on the bomb. Even better if you get extra bomb stacks. Twin dummies need something else to make it a better choice.

[jakeypoo]

His dash with ignite is worse. Unstable Cores is fun but pretty difficult to use consistently.

I don’t think Vacuum Capsule and Clockwork Medicine works on the first dummy spawned by the Dummy Ball (cant get healed by the special either) so that’s where Twin Dummies comes in maybe?

Or when you do Oiled Mechanisms and Fireworks, Twin Dummies spawn right in front of you ready to be hit.

[Iris Heart]

If we're being honest over here, there is no reason to pick anything but grenade puppet starting talent, because everything else straight up sucks. Double dummy would still be worse if it was 100% chance, as it stands now - forget it. Ignite dash does joke damage, ignite it causes does even less, all while making your dash extremely awkward and you - very vulnerable while doing it.

[Lord_Abaddon]

Originally posted by Iris Heart:

If we're being honest over here, there is no reason to pick anything but grenade puppet starting talent, because everything else straight up sucks. Double dummy would still be worse if it was 100% chance, as it stands now - forget it. Ignite dash does joke damage, ignite it causes does even less, all while making your dash extremely awkward and you - very vulnerable while doing it.

I think people sleep on stuff like ignite dash or pipper's chill special for group play. it's not meant to be great for you but it helps others activate skill requirements like snow queens increases damage on chilled targets.

granted the summon 2 puppets even at 100% as you said would still be worst than grenade spawning since with grenades you can get extra charges and lower cooldown. I think adding an additional puppet would atleast give it something more to make it a choice between the two.

[DebrisHauler]

There is a good reason to pick twin dummies because it is better in chapter 1 than dummyball with no stacks in chapter 1. This also works well with Gepetto's Flash of Genius talent. Because you would want to max flash of genius asap and then reroll everything with sands of oblivion with Flash of Genius removed from your kit at either the end of chapter 1 or start of chapter 2. So would also replace twin dummies with dummyball at that time.

[Iris Heart]

In what world twin dummies is better in chapter 1 lmao.

[Quinox]

Because I don't see it being mentioned. Unstable cores works on dummy death, which is easy on higher difficulties. That's just free AoE damage without your input, I run it and it just works.

[Lord_Abaddon]

Originally posted by Quinox:

Because I don't see it being mentioned. Unstable cores works on dummy death, which is easy on higher difficulties. That's just free AoE damage without your input, I run it and it just works.

So I didn't mention it because dummy ball and twin dummies seem provide the same function but one is just better.

[Palo Wagner]

Originally posted by Iris Heart:

In what world twin dummies is better in chapter 1 lmao.

It isnt, dummy ball is the only viable talent, the rest are genualy trash in comparison

[Mistress Creamy Pancakes]

Many of the characters have unfortunately low variety in good starting talents.

[Lord_Abaddon]

Originally posted by Mistress Creamy Pancakes:

Many of the characters have unfortunately low variety in good starting talents.

See I think Scarlet and I think Melusine have 4 viable talents.

Melusine has 3 different support starters 2 supplyhealing the other applies weak. while weak isn't great its atleast viable espcially for stuff that gets bonus's from debuffs.

Scarlet has 4 very valid talents as well.

Increased crit and damage,

Free power usage on kills and increased damage

swapping between forms every 30 seconds with a heal allows you to spam more ultimates since her skills don't share cooldowns between forms.

and the ranged special with increased damage also works in both forms and isn't bad especially if you get some upgrades into special.


other characters as well have some really good starting talents that are all valid takes. gepetto though im only ever taking dummy ball.

[Mistress Creamy Pancakes]

Originally posted by Lord_Abaddon:

Originally posted by Mistress Creamy Pancakes:

Many of the characters have unfortunately low variety in good starting talents.

See I think Scarlet and I think Melusine have 4 viable talents.

Melusine has 3 different support starters 2 supplyhealing the other applies weak. while weak isn't great its atleast viable espcially for stuff that gets bonus's from debuffs.

Scarlet has 4 very valid talents as well.

Increased crit and damage,

Free power usage on kills and increased damage

swapping between forms every 30 seconds with a heal allows you to spam more ultimates since her skills don't share cooldowns between forms.

and the ranged special with increased damage also works in both forms and isn't bad especially if you get some upgrades into special.


other characters as well have some really good starting talents that are all valid takes. gepetto though im only ever taking dummy ball.

I would never take piper's shield on defense over something like the +attack speed or the extra damage vulnerability. Or I would never seriously take anything other than stone monkey for the monkey king. But you do you. I think those two you mentioned do got a good variety tho, I will agree.

[DebrisHauler]

Originally posted by Iris Heart:

In what world twin dummies is better in chapter 1 lmao.

It creates more dummies faster than dummy ball with no extra stacks.

[MarcoPants]

Originally posted by DebrisHauler:

Originally posted by Iris Heart:

In what world twin dummies is better in chapter 1 lmao.

It creates more dummies faster than dummy ball with no extra stacks.

what's better? a CHANCE to make two dummies on the same cooldown or two guaranteed dummies on separate cooldowns, one of which can be enhanced even further to allow for even more dummy spam?. dummy ball wins every time

[Fencer]

Originally posted by MarcoPants:

Originally posted by DebrisHauler:

It creates more dummies faster than dummy ball with no extra stacks.

what's better? a CHANCE to make two dummies on the same cooldown or two guaranteed dummies on separate cooldowns, one of which can be enhanced even further to allow for even more dummy spam?. dummy ball wins every time

When upgraded to legendary Twin Dummies gets 100% chance, but even at common level it produces pretty much the same amount of dummies on average
Trait cooldown = 4 seconds
Special cooldown = 7 seconds
Twin Dummies chances, per rarity = 55%, 70%, 85%, 100%

Dummy Ball = 1/4 + 1/7 = 0.39285 dummies per second
common Twin Dummies = 1.55 / 4 = 0.3875 dummies per second
rare Twin Dummies = 1.70 / 4 = 0.425 dummies per second
epic Twin Dummies = 1.85 / 4 = 0.4625 dummies per second
legendary Twin Dummies = 2 / 4 = 0.5 dummies per second

With magic items that improve special dummyball can wind up better, but that is exactly the point DebrisHauler was making.