DDO or Neverwinter? which one is better?

[DjSkeejay]

please help for a newbie

[Fherrit]

I played both, hands down DDO's gameplay is heads and shoulders above NW. However, Turbine itself is showing signs of underfunding and short staffing, customer service is sparce even on the forums. For the most part, they're minor niggling issues, and the gfx are definitely more on the ugly side. Criticism of Turbine's item shop are not completely unfounded, you can definitely feel them tugging on your wallet without at all trying to be subtle about it. The community is generally friendly/good/loyal to the game, though you can play solo accessing all but raid level content, being in a guild will improve your game experience.

That said, content continues to come out for DDO and while there is the inevitable power creep all MMOs suffer from because Devs seem incapable of breaking the "More Levels, Bigger Items" trap, the adventures are flat out fun. I have been unable to put DDO down, it captures the spirit of AD&D 3.0 extremely well and while NW has its foundry and that's actually pretty cool and all, IMO the gameplay in NW is thin and shallow. Rather typical Perfect World work.

Finally, don't look at the F2P and think its a free game. Its a free trial, the gates are firmly in place until you buy certain xpacs. When you do buy them, you get turnbine points which if you buy both Shadow Conspiracy and MOTU you'll have access to 2500 pts which will let you make a few value decisions (Hint: Don't buy the Drow race, you'll unlock them by level 8 if you do quests, save the points for Tomes and sales).

[Demion]

neverwinter more like old ddo style and none expansion need pay or content well both got theyre own unique style myself like more neverwinter:d

[sotetpapa]

DDO is classical DnD gameplay...

[Rodfather]

I prefer DDO to a large degree but that is just me...Neverwinter to me seems a dumbdowned version for kids...also seems way too easy...dont like the interface...etc..etc...it does have betr graphics though if u prefer eye candy...and have not run into the dreaded lag monster that inhabits the ddo world...best way is to play both and decide for urself as someone else mentioned

[Diogenes]

In my opinion, I like DDO. That's not too say that it doesn't have some bad element's. I have recently clocked almost 700 hpurs of play on this game... Yeah I know I need a life... It feel's very much play to win.

Almost everything in the game is purchasable and it's up to you weather or not you buy the quest packs or pay a subscription fee. Many players prefer to buy the quest packs and play when ever they like rather than pay a monthly sub. I would highly recommend though that you either buy the veteran status and 32pnt build option, or the recent expansion pack "The Shadowfell Conspiracy". The new expansion pack gives you 3 prestige classes that are all 32 point builds. However... You can skip training at level 1, go to any other trainer and level in any other class combination up to 15th level. Essentially you are given access to an instant 15th level toon. You do have to buy the Bladeforged class seperately though which will give you access to a Warforged Paladin which is handy if say for example you spend the points that come bundled with the expansion on unlocking that class in which case it won't cost you anything, and you then combine that class with the artificier/monk.

However, having said all of the above, 3 thing's put me off.

1: They have the worst servers that I have ever played on any MMO. They are constantly sluggish and prone to login issues which can result in the game world hanging during loading or being booted from the game world because your logged in on another game world even though you aren't.

2: Mana regen is rediculous. They have mana pots, but you either have to grind them or buy them. Only a few items replenish a small ammount of mana. There are rest shrines in the game which you can use 1 every 10 minutes in normal instances, or once only on harder settings. That sounds OK... Until you come to a huge environment like King's Forest which is loaded with mob's and only has about 3 rest shrines in the entire area and it's the same with dungeons. 1 dungeon tha's loaded with mob's and takes 40+ minutes to get around may only have one rest shrine. Most toons, especially low level toons are going to be using mana like no ones business. The lack of being able to recover mana in DDO end's up making casters, and in fact healers, almost useless when they run out of mana. That is almost a game breaker for the mana classes.

3: The last thing that put's me off with DDO is that as I said, it's very much pay to win. You can buy anything in the game almost. If you don't want to subscribe, then you can buy the adventure packs. If you don't buy the adventure packs, then your quite limited in where you can go and what you can do. It can be quite difficult to level in some instances if there aren't enough groups going to a F2P dungeon, or that you end up running out of dungeons to do. You can buy mats, pots, hirelings, weapons etc...

Although, I still very much like DDO and I have played Never Winter too, but I keep going back too DDO because I very much like my 22nd lvl Pale Master. Never Winter didn't feel like it offered more than DDO did to me. It felt very arcady, and I hate to say it but like it's trying to be a combination of WoW and NWN. It didn't "Feel" like AD&D to me.

[Vilestorm]

Goonace.D'BeepBeep님이 먼저 게시:

Neverwinter uses the 4e ruleset. I think you can make your decision, knowing that.

I wouldn't exactly say it's based very much on 4th edition. A lot of that comes from being realtime vs. turn based, since sliding and shifting would be hard to work into realtime, but that is also true of DDO. You do not have nearly the same level of custimization such as picking feats or skills to train, you can't pick from nearly as many powers, and the powers they have don't do the same things they do in the P&P game.

From what I have played I would say that DDO is closer to 4th edition in terms of gameplay than Neverwinter even though it is based on 3rd edition just because it actually functions more closely to a D&D game at all.

[Doug]

Apparently this thread is resurrected. I don't play NWN, so I can't comment effectively. See if you can find a thread like this one on the NWN forums:

'Everything I can think of that's wrong with DDO.. from a FAN' http://steamcommunity.com/app/206480/discussions/0/558754899307379180/

Perhaps the comparison between them will help with your decision.

[Here->profiles/76561198014546125]

The biggest off putting thing about NW is how incredibly easy it is to mash buttons in every single instance, regardless of anything else around you. This is sad considering I'm a DC. I've maybe had to heal someone in a single boss fight, which really didn't matter as you respawn right next to it with a minimal debuff that makes dying completely meangingless.

If I could get my gf to enjoy how complicated DDO is which translates in to tactical and skilled gameplay, I would be playing that instead.

As for "pay gates" or other things people elude to, that simply is not the case. There is a massive amount of content in DDO, and most of it can be unlocked with a VIP account. Not to mention the 'cases' in NW I can't even imagine people ragging on Turbine about making money in a F2P game, that happens to be one of the best MMO's ever created.

[gamingforfun]

Neverwinter is a weak imitation of pencil and paper D&D while DDO is much closer to the actual game.

[Doug]

Cadderley님이 먼저 게시:

In my opinion, I like DDO. .... (snipped) ....

However, having said all of the above, 3 thing's put me off.

1: They have the worst servers that I have ever played on any MMO. They are constantly sluggish and prone to login issues which can result in the game world hanging during loading or being booted from the game world because your logged in on another game world even though you aren't.

I have played DDO for over 5 years and most recently play from Ecuador on a .6Mbps connection and have literally never experienced this problem. I don't know what the cause is, but it's clearly not universal.

Cadderley님이 먼저 게시:

2: Mana regen is rediculous. They have mana pots, but you either have to grind them or buy them. Only a few items replenish a small ammount of mana. There are rest shrines in the game which you can use 1 every 10 minutes in normal instances, or once only on harder settings. That sounds OK... Until you come to a huge environment like King's Forest which is loaded with mob's and only has about 3 rest shrines in the entire area and it's the same with dungeons. 1 dungeon tha's loaded with mob's and takes 40+ minutes to get around may only have one rest shrine. Most toons, especially low level toons are going to be using mana like no ones business. The lack of being able to recover mana in DDO end's up making casters, and in fact healers, almost useless when they run out of mana. That is almost a game breaker for the mana classes.

This is a style thing, and while your description is accurate (mana regen for casters only happens when you run out, and only regens enough to cast a single low-level spell), I completely disagree with your assessment of its impact. A caster with infinite mana is a demi-god. Regenning mana is a nerf-bat that makes it so a caster can be profligate in their casting and all they need do is hide in a corner to regen. Where's the fun/skill in that? DDO absolutely mandates that a caster pace their SP expenditure. If you run out before the next Rest Shrine, you are indeed pretty useless. Yes, you can buy mnemonic (mana) pots and use them, but that's for the wealthy and/or untalented. I've run many a caster, and the only place I ever use them is raids.. and the ones I pick up from other quests have always been more than adequate for the raiding I've done.

While, as you say, rest shrines are only reusable on lower difficulties, the ones in Adventure Areas (like the King's Forest) all reset. And I know of at least 3 offhand in that particular area.

DDO's mana system is only a handicap to casters who want to solo or who lack the ability to manage their mana.

Cadderley님이 먼저 게시:

3: The last thing that put's me off with DDO is that as I said, it's very much pay to win. You can buy anything in the game almost. If you don't want to subscribe, then you can buy the adventure packs. If you don't buy the adventure packs, then your quite limited in where you can go and what you can do. It can be quite difficult to level in some instances if there aren't enough groups going to a F2P dungeon, or that you end up running out of dungeons to do. You can buy mats, pots, hirelings, weapons etc...

I've covered this in the thread linked in my post above ('Everything that's wrong with DDO.. from a FAN'), but I'll hit the highlights here: IMO, DDO is not P2W. For one thing, everything that truly matters can be earned in-game. You may not like how much 'grinding' is required, but you are not gimped in the meantime because of the second thing.. which is that DDO is a cooperative game: PVE rather than PVP. DDO is Pay For Convenience. Since every MMO is a business, there has to be some incentive to pay.. for DDO, it's to get that shiny thing earlier or easier. That's it. There are exactly 2 things in DDO that I can think of that a complete F2P can't buy: the 10% xp bonus for VIPs (subscribers) and extra auction slots to buy and sell stuff. Not exactly P2W perks.

Cadderley님이 먼저 게시:

Although, I still very much like DDO and I have played Never Winter too, but I keep going back too DDO because I very much like my 22nd lvl Pale Master. Never Winter didn't feel like it offered more than DDO did to me. It felt very arcady, and I hate to say it but like it's trying to be a combination of WoW and NWN. It didn't "Feel" like AD&D to me.

And that's what DDO really offers: at the cost of a steep learning curve and some admittedly annoying content limitations when you first play, you get a breadth and depth of character design and customization that's unparalleled ime, along with great gameplay and a system that won't coddle you.... It attracts an older (sometimes more mature) playerbase because of the complexity, and if you get tired of 'WoW kiddies' like I do, DDO is a haven.

All that having been said, if you decide to play DDO and want to minimize your frustration, check out ddowiki.com, but especially this page: http://ddowiki.com/page/Guide_to_Free_to_Play
It gives hints on what priorities to put on your Turbine Point expenditures to keep you from hitting the 'F2P wall' at mid-levels.

[Phabio T. Host]

Yes, the difference between them is simplicity and customization. In Neverwinter many of the players are the same the real difference comes from gear. This makes for a simpler and easily grasped game, and in my opinion reduces the replay value by making the toons too static to be played more than a few times. In DDO a well built toon can run minimum gear and still be better than some gear mongering builds... but making a good build takes time and understanding of the game meaning many people don't enjoy the game because either thay are not good at building toons or the more common they don't want to take the time to make a great build. Those are the big differences. They are both fun but it comes down to Building a badass and taking a while or playing a simpler and more user friendly but less original experience.

[殺してあげる]

Doug님이 먼저 게시:

DDO absolutely mandates that a caster pace their SP expenditure. If you run out before the next Rest Shrine, you are indeed pretty useless.

*AHEM*

My arcane acquitted herself damned well in Fleshmaker, for all that her spells were useless: short sword of smiting+light&darkness shield while that mana went into blur/displace/master touch/haste. Now with an actual EDK line... hehehe (Sub in returning weapons or light xbows if you rather not melee- my arcane is an enchanter though so she's always in knife range). Or scroll Tensers~ (Buy in House P).

More to the point, part of it is the.. well, Kyomi-ing (In reference to a guildie- imagine Caraneth Myar as a player). The need to always be casting..firing off a spell even if the mob is down to a few hp, even if surrounded by melee hacking it, when a tap with your staff could end it as easily. Stretch that over the course of the dungeon, and be out of sp in short order.

Honestly, with SLAs in EVERY line, it's hard to buy the excuse of being out of sp for any reason other than poor management. In the old days, sure, but not now. Most rest shrines we find don't get used as is.

Worst case, party up with a spellsinger bard~

Yes, you can buy mnemonic (mana) pots and use them, but that's for the wealthy and/or untalented.

pif. Take a chance! Roll the dice! Potions of Wonder are your friend! (well, except the time I put a Droaam Demolition charge under the resting party's feet *snicker* but they took my fun out). Slug back a few and chances are you'll get an Mnem pot effect before long.

[Doug]

phabio t host님이 먼저 게시:

Yes, the difference between them is simplicity and customization. In Neverwinter many of the players are the same the real difference comes from gear. This makes for a simpler and easily grasped game, and in my opinion reduces the replay value by making the toons too static to be played more than a few times. In DDO a well built toon can run minimum gear and still be better than some gear mongering builds... but making a good build takes time and understanding of the game meaning many people don't enjoy the game because either thay are not good at building toons or the more common they don't want to take the time to make a great build. Those are the big differences. They are both fun but it comes down to Building a badass and taking a while or playing a simpler and more user friendly but less original experience.

So if both have mindlessness (or boringness), in NWN it's in the toon and in DDO it's in the content (if you don't pay)?

BTW.. best tool out there for toon-building: Ron's Character Generator (rjcyberware.com). It's far from perfect, but they keep improving it. Saves a lot of problems (oops, can't take that feat at that level, it's a general feat and I only get a class feat at that level, for example). Also, a preplanned toon means you don't have to drop from your party for an hour or two to decide what you're taking when you level up... a few minutes at a trainer and you're back in business.

[Doug]

殺してあげる님이 먼저 게시:

My arcane acquitted herself damned well in Fleshmaker, for all that her spells were useless: short sword of smiting+light&darkness shield while that mana went into blur/displace/master touch/haste. Now with an actual EDK line... hehehe (Sub in returning weapons or light xbows if you rather not melee- my arcane is an enchanter though so she's always in knife range). Or scroll Tensers~ (Buy in House P).

IMO, unless you built an Eldritch Knight or a melee Pale Master equivalent, it's just a bad idea for arcanes to swing at things beyond low levels. Their melee DPS is terrible. But I kinda believe in focus.. I'd rather stand watching, doing nothing, waiting for the next opportune moment to cast, knowing I won't miss it because I'm doing something essentially useless that takes my focus.

殺してあげる님이 먼저 게시:

Honestly, with SLAs in EVERY line, it's hard to buy the excuse of being out of sp for any reason other than poor management. In the old days, sure, but not now. Most rest shrines we find don't get used as is..

Poor management or soloing are the only reasons one runs out of SP.. again, with the exception of some raids and possibly some Epic Elite content. With a good party, I'm often shrining even tho I only used 40-60% of my mana.

[殺してあげる]

Direct DPS is terrible, but proc damage can be great. Neg levels nuke 10% of hp, so a draining weapon is great. Don't need to do high damage for vorp or smite to proc, and even if doesn't that's still another 30ish damage that could kill a mob as easily as another fireball when a sliver is left.

...and then is the hillarious bug my ninja is abusing the hell out of: she's pulling off off-hand procs from Celestia (300 average between fire det and greater sunburst) on thrown weapons, in addition to whatever the thrown weapon does. Half tempted to intentionally recreate using Greensteel/ToD for ludicrous results if this keeps up.

(note: not intentionally abusing, just dual-wield Celestia normally on her, and switching to shuriken doesn't clear offhand, so.. yeah, not going to manually switch every time I dance with archer/casters)

Caveat: I'd not recommend a mage meleeing in EE (or anyone to be honest :P ). EH would be the limit, and not wading into cleaving mobs like Yuan-ti. Just suggesting Disintigrate isn't the best use of SP when a mob has 120 hp left. ....unless it's Arraetrikos during Phase 4...then you have to shout Avada Kedavra and it becomes hillarious ...once. :P