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Alternatively, the Feydark Illusionist tree gives the same option.
Or take at least half your levels in FvS.
There are a few ways to use Cha for your to-hit and dmg stat, depending on what you have available and what kind of toon you want to build.
and in any of those cases, you can dump Str. You might find that that nerfs a DC on something, though, so watch for that.
I'm more interested in whether you think I should go full fighter levels (for dragon lord enhancements) or should I try and do my usual weird strat of taking some caster levels in wizard for EK and FS. I actually quite like your detailed explanations and breakdowns Doug, so I trust your knowledge on the game lol. unfortunately, my knowledge is pretty limited so I'm unsure.
My thoughts are... EK + Dragon Lord enhancements and FS if I pick the dragon soul that gives me a fire imbue would be pretty gnarly, though I'm unsure how its imbue will work considering EK gives me an imbue already.
While all imbue dice, regardless of source, apply to any active imbue, you can only have ONE active imbue at a time. So when considering stacking classes, keep in mind that additional imbue DICE are valuable, but additional imbues only help vs mobs immune to or healed by your existing imbue(s).
MY go-to strategy is always to run one life pure first, before considering multiclasses. Get to know the class, its strengths and weaknesses, in practical experience before seeking to combine it with others.
As for my knowledge of the game, I facepalmed as I looked back at my list: PDK isn't an option unless you're willing to blow a Lesser Heart of Wood+1 to change the initial class. It starts with a level of Fighter, but it HAS to be generic Fighter, not Dragon Lord. So that was a bad recommendation.
Here's what I HAVE noticed.
The Draconic Arms Imbue scales with melee or ranged power, not spell power. EK imbues scale with spell power. You'd want to build for one or the other, not both. Imbue dice, as mentioned previously, will apply to whichever you have active.
Auras, Reckeless Devotion (Core 3), Conqueror's Command (Core 4), and Conqueror's Defense (Core 5) suggest this build is designed to shine in a group (inc. hirelings) more than solo.
If you multiclass, you will lose the Capstone, which is pretty boss:
"Sunder Soul: +50% Damage. Cooldown 20 seconds. Sundered enemies in a small area in front of you must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + Highest of STR and CHA mod + Sunder bonuses) or have their Soul sundered, killing them instantly.
Passive: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, +10 Melee and Ranged Power, +1 Imbue Die. The bonus of all your Draconic Auras increases by 2."
Alternatively, the Ravager Capstone is also quite good.
DL shows no preference between a Str build and a Cha build. All DCs seem to work with the higher of the two.
However, for Two-Handed Fighting, you need adequate Str to take the Feats. There's no good reason to build for Two-Weapon Fighting. For Sword & Board, you'd need to take the Shield Proficiency Feat (DL don't get it automatically). If you're Cha-based, your best bet is likely to be Single-Weapon Fighting for the increased procs. If you're Str-based, THF.
Also, there's a lot of focus on improvements to Tactical Feat DCs, which are only of value if you take some Tactical Feats. Be sure to consider their prerequisite stats. Trip and Sunder are particularly valuable since you can do additional damage to enemies you affect with these Tactical Feats.
All the Breath Weapon DC bonuses mean that DL will be excellent as a Dragonborn race and will pair well with the Draconic Incarnation ED.. EXCEPT that the imbues are empowered by Melee or Ranged Power instead of Spell Power. So you'd be essentially wanting to build for both, which is more challenging. In fact, for a class that has so much riding on melee power, it doesn't provide much in the DL enhancement tree: +25% total. It provides (as far as I can see) NO spell power.
All that considers only the DL main tree.
The Ravager tree adds a few more melee power options, tho not a ton.
The Stalwart Defender tree, of course, is defensive in nature.
Neither adds imbue dice, Tactics DCs, nor spell power. Both have value, ofc, but nothing that focuses on the DL unique abilities nor focus.
Then again, considering how Power tends to work... I feel that it wouldn't be much of an issue. As far as I remember, it's quite difficult to actually get any substantial melee power to begin with as I was barely able to accumulate any RANGED power for my ranger/wiz, the one I had made a post about way back when that uses EK, PW and dual crossbows.
As for your go-to. I understand the idea behind it. Get a feel for the class itself, but also benefit from the power of going purebuild. I respect it, and I may just steal said strategy... Perhaps I'll do purebuild DL first, and then after I max it (however many years from now that may be lol) i'll rebirth it and multiclass it if I feel comfortable and confident that it'd benefit from wizard.
As for your observations on the lack of synergy with its enhancements, I'm sure it'll be fine. DL's tree itself looks... pretty powerful on its own, really. The sunder soul will definitely be powerful if I can get the DC's high enough. That right there is just an instant ♥♥♥♥ You to anything I can manage to sunder.
I may go Two-Handed fighting as I love big swords and plus the character I intend to create for Roleplay reasons mainly uses Two handed, so that's fine.
As for the 'shines in a group' thing, I'm hoping aura's and some of the other buffs apply to me as well, otherwise that will be quite sad. It doesn't explicitly stay it Doesn't, so.. we'll see I guess. Thanks again, mate, I appreciate you.|
Edit: Okay yeah Reckless and Conqueror's only apply to an ally, but they do provide a passive increase to myself as well so that's fine. I can just take a hireling and do that, they aren't too expensive and it would benefit me anyway.
Mostly feats, but some in Ravager and stuff so that's good. I'll have to do a lot of planning on feats.... I've never been too good with that, but it's fine. I'll work on it some other time as I'm waiting to make this character for the time being to see if I can get a couple of friends to play DDO with me as well.
I wish there was an *option* for level scaling, so I didn't just wipe all their difficulty if i play as a higher level with em, lmao.
Synergy with Sorc will be better than Wiz, if you go Cha-based. And if not, you're torn between Str and Int. OTOH, ofc, Sorc has no Pale Master option.
I'm never sure with something like this whether I should applaud the flexibility or curse the need/desire to dual-spec into both melee and spellcasting powers.
I admit to being no expert, but my experience agrees with yours: it's easier to get high spell power values than high melee power values. I've had spell powers in the several hundreds, but I think my highest-ever melee power was just over 100.
For all my abilities with synergies in multiclassing, I'm no min-maxer. There are definitely others who are better at squeezing the maximum possible spell power or melee power out of a build. I frankly haven't spent enough time playing at cap to need to learn it.
For sure, I was going to go sorc for Fire Savant and build that, DL enhancements, and EK .. choosing between the tier 5's of the three would be difficult, but I can always reset if I feel one is preforming meh over the other two.
Yeah, it's.. cool, but it's also kind of difficult. On one hand, it would be fine if Dragon's Breath scaled on character level as opposed to caster (On the wiki, there's an instance where it says it's scales on char, but the actual enhancement (also on the wiki) says caster level, so I'm unsure), but it's doable really.
I am far from an expert but I kind of tried to get my knowledge up for my my wiz/inquisitor build. A lot of it has decayed because as I said I get bored and take long breaks, but I still remember decent bits.
I think it would be wiser to go for EK than purebuild because I could benefit largely from the EK imbues over the Draconic Arms, but honestly I'm just going to go purebuild and see how it works out. I'll go for greater two handed fighting as soon as I can (improved first, obviously), sunder and trip... et cetera. I'll look up the feats later to see what else I might take, and we'll see how it goes. If I can play long enough to hit 20, I'll do a rebirth or something and then try it with a DL/Sorc split.
Far as I'm aware, every aura in the game affects the player themself as well as those around. It's just that if there's nobody around, that buff is under-utilized. It's not so much a problem as a thing to consider.
Yeah. You shouldn't be Feat-starved. You're still a Fighter, even though you lose 3 Fighter Bonus Feats (replaced by Aura Feats at 1, 8, & 16). So up to L20 you get the usual 7 plus 6 Fighter Bonus Feats.
I'll list here the Feats I think are most worthy of consideration for your Str-based, THF build DL, in case you find it helpful. Sequence is up to you.
Two-Handed Fighting (Improved THF, Greater THF as soon as available)
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip (requires Combat Expertise, which requires Int 13)
Improved Critical: Whatever your main weapon will be.. probably Slash :)
ALL the Tactical Feats (Training, Combatant, Mastery, Supremacy)
As many Heavy Armor Feats (Training, Combatant, Master, Champion) as you can fit in. Note that with the permanent Displacement (T4 Untouchable Soul), forgoing these in favor of other options is pretty reasonable.
Stunning Blow doesn't proc any specific DL effects, but it does take advantage of your high Tactics DCs so might be worth taking.
Weapon Focus/Specialization Feats add to Melee Power and therefore to Draconic Arms damage (at double Melee Power).
Delaying the Heavy Armor Feats means you'll get the highest-value ones, since you probably won't take all of them (You don't have to take them in order of increasing value.. Same is true for the Tactical Feats, though you probably want all of those.).
If you're multi-classing with a caster class and intend to cast spells, you will probably have to forgo the Heavy Armor Feats (and the Stalwart Defender tree) entirely.
I wouldn't usually take Improved Trip, because it requires two Feats (Prereq: Combat Expertise), but the +4 to Trip DCs is probably worth it for this class. You REALLY want your Trips to land as often as possible. Also, Improved Trip's cooldown drops from 15 sec to 10 sec (ditto with Sunder vs Improved Sunder)
It should be obvious that the best Minor Draconic Aura will be Thraxata's Instinct for a +2 Morale bonus to Tactics DCs. The +2 to Saves is also tempting, but morale bonuses to Saves are available from spells and the like; nothing I can recall gives a Morale bonus to Tactics DCs (though I could be wrong on that: Tactics DCs aren't my forte). (When I make mine, I may take the Saves anyway and see how the Tactics DCs land; if they don't, a Feat swap with Fred the Mindflayer will correct the issue.)
One other observation: There's little support in the DL tree for a THF build in the way of Strikethrough: only 20%. If you're building for Melee Power rather than Spell Power, consider a race with Strikethrough bonuses (Dwarf and Half-Orc, iirc.. idr if there are others). HOrcs also get a bonus to Sunder DCs and to Str. Generally speaking I prefer Strikethrough to the Cleave Feats, but I could be convinced otherwise for a build without access to much Strikethrough.
NOTE: DDOWiki has several errors in the Dragon Lord info as compared to Live. Examples:
T3 Might or Outburst (5 charge Action Boost) - Wiki says a charge may be restored by Dragon's Roar, Trip, Sunder, or Stunning Blow. Live only says Dragon's Roar.
Class Info says the DL gets a 'Strong Will Save'; it doesn't. It gets the crappy Will Save progression.
Oh, and the in-game tooltip for Improved Sunder doesn't show a DC increase from a base of 10 to 14.. but the save DC increases by 4, so even the in-game descriptions aren't necessarily definitive.