Okay I just have to say something

[DopeScope]

So the devs like LOTRO has given a lot of the old content to players for free now which is great including classes, dlc, and other content.

As I've been playing over the past 3 days I have been enjoying the game a lot so far to the point where I was asking myself how is this game not exploding with players with how good it is for an old MMO.

I got on today and was like hey I might even Sub to support this game just because of how much I like it. I'm level 3 about to go level 4 and then BOOM the game hits me with a you can't make anymore gold till you level up or you can SUB to not have a money cap....

Soon as this hit me I lost all interest in subbing, playing the game, or putting anymore time into it. I hate when they try to strong arm you into subbing with disgusting crap like money limiting in a D&D game.....

And then it hit me THIS is why this game is not more populated or popular despite being and amazing D&D game.

It' really a shame I can bet you a lot of players have left or didn't stay long because of this exact same reason. Let people enjoy the game without forcing subs down their throat and they probably will just sub on their own because they're having fun instead of being limited.

[Taebrythn]

i mean you can level or if you bought something with cash without subbing those caps are removed. no one is forcing you to sub. it's simply a choice. choose to support what you want or don't. the model works just fine.

[Doug]

This is not strongarming. Not even close. In fact, I'm amazed you hit the cap! Not because the cap isn't low, but because first-life players are usually spending every cent they collect on new gear and such.

Thing is, a F2P game MUST have some means of encouraging people to pay. People who will do so just to 'support the game' exist, but there are far from enough of them to keep a game running. DDO's been running for WELL over a decade now, so I think it's safe to say their system is working at least adequately.

That being said, everyone responds to these things differently. If that offends you enough you no longer want to play, that's fair. I mean, if you intended to sub anyway, it's a bit foolish, since the sub does make that problem entirely disappear... permanently. Even if you stop subscribing, this particular limit never occurs again. (Once you've paid for ANYTHING with real money, your account permanently changes from F2P to Premium, where the restrictions are reduced.)

You can see the details here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Account_comparisons

[DopeScope]

Originally posted by Doug:

This is not strongarming. Not even close. In fact, I'm amazed you hit the cap! Not because the cap isn't low, but because first-life players are usually spending every cent they collect on new gear and such.

Thing is, a F2P game MUST have some means of encouraging people to pay. People who will do so just to 'support the game' exist, but there are far from enough of them to keep a game running. DDO's been running for WELL over a decade now, so I think it's safe to say their system is working at least adequately.

That being said, everyone responds to these things differently. If that offends you enough you no longer want to play, that's fair. I mean, if you intended to sub anyway, it's a bit foolish, since the sub does make that problem entirely disappear... permanently. Even if you stop subscribing, this particular limit never occurs again. (Once you've paid for ANYTHING with real money, your account permanently changes from F2P to Premium, where the restrictions are reduced.)

You can see the details here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Account_comparisons

Encouraging? I literally can't sell items to vendors anymore or collect any more money from things I've sold on AH.... it is 100% strongarming to unlock with real money or sub is my only option. Then I leveled up and hit money cap again instantly just from one AH sale. So now again can't sell items to vendor or make anymore money forcing me to then throw all my items away to have bag space cause I can't do anything with them since bank is now full, can't sell to vendor, and am out of my already limited bag space.

It's cool though its just my opinion and I knew the players that stay and play these games will always defend them. Ask yourself why is there so few people playing this game now a days it's an easy answer.

I get how you see that as I could sub or buy with real money to go premium and make it go away. I was going to sub because Its a good game and because I felt like I wasn't being forced to but then they showed me their true intention and what they really care about as a company and I just won't sub or play on principle. They're losing tons of players like this you don't have to agree but we all know it's true.

[MMOGamer71]

Originally posted by Doug:

This is not strongarming. Not even close. In fact, I'm amazed you hit the cap! Not because the cap isn't low, but because first-life players are usually spending every cent they collect on new gear and such.

Thing is, a F2P game MUST have some means of encouraging people to pay. People who will do so just to 'support the game' exist, but there are far from enough of them to keep a game running. DDO's been running for WELL over a decade now, so I think it's safe to say their system is working at least adequately.

That being said, everyone responds to these things differently. If that offends you enough you no longer want to play, that's fair. I mean, if you intended to sub anyway, it's a bit foolish, since the sub does make that problem entirely disappear... permanently. Even if you stop subscribing, this particular limit never occurs again. (Once you've paid for ANYTHING with real money, your account permanently changes from F2P to Premium, where the restrictions are reduced.)

You can see the details here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Account_comparisons

^
Pretty much this.

[drunken.dx]

If you think DDO has it bad, try doing GW2 as f2p.

[Doug]

Originally posted by DopeScope:

Ask yourself why is there so few people playing this game now a days it's an easy answer.

You know, you imagine you're unique, but every person who has ever written here that they're leaving DDO and expressed their reason has stated the exact same thing: that THIS thing is why people leave.

Some of them are no doubt correct, at least to some extent.
It's still mostly projection, though. This is the thing YOU don't like. That doesn't make that universal, nor even close. If you're not spending your gold anyway, why do you even care?

As for why there are so few people playing, MOST of that is simply because the game is a decade-and-a-half old and there are newer things to play, so people move on. It still attracts new players, but not generally swarms of them any more. No other explanation is either necessary nor particularly valid.. if this thing you think is so terrible has been in existence that long and people still play? Clearly it's not off-putting to most.

[Doug]

Originally posted by DopeScope:

Encouraging? I literally can't sell items to vendors anymore or collect any more money from things I've sold on AH.... it is 100% strongarming to unlock with real money or sub is my only option.

Not true. You merely lack imagination. You are not the only person who has ever encountered this restriction. The cap rises quickly, though, so it's a temporary inconvenience, no more. Calling it strongarming is definitely overstating, particularly since:

1) All you need to do is spend that platinum and it's no problem at all. Buy healing potions, scrolls, wands, better gear.. there are all sorts of things begging for you to spend that plat as quickly as you acquire it. MOST new players never even discover the limit exists, because they have so many things they want to buy.

2) You can push the problem into the future, when you'll have leveled and your cap will be higher simply by mailing plat to yourself and not opening it until you've gained more levels.

3) You can simply not bother picking up gear that's of no use to you (your inventory as a low-level F2P player is ALSO limited, anyway), until you have room in your plat cap to sell it.

All these options and more can get you past the plat cap restrictions that exist at low levels. As I've said elsewhere, DDO is PFC (Pay For Convenience). The plat cap is inconvenient, no more than that. If you really hate it, you can either pay to eliminate it (a one-time purchase of some DDO points or the cheapest item in the DDO Market will do so forever), or you can work around it. Or you can, of course, leave the game.
But don't try to pretend this tiny inconvenience is why hordes of people don't play DDO. It won't fly. This is literally the very first time I've encountered this as someone's major complaint about the game in the time I've played it (since 2009). Clearly your ire is not universal.

[Doug]

Originally posted by DopeScope:

I get how you see that as I could sub or buy with real money to go premium and make it go away. I was going to sub because Its a good game and because I felt like I wasn't being forced to but then they showed me their true intention and what they really care about as a company and I just won't sub or play on principle. They're losing tons of players like this you don't have to agree but we all know it's true.

So your 'principle' is that the company shouldn't put any limits or restrictions on you as a F2P player and just HOPE you'll decide to pay? Your 'principle' is that a minor inconvenience somehow makes the game unworthy of your support? Your 'principle' is that they shouldn't try to earn the money that allows the servers to keep in operation? That's an odd principle.

It's still a good game. And you're still not being 'forced' to pay. You have encountered a minor inconvenience that doing what you planned on doing anyway would fix forever.

Your 'principle' is outright ridiculous.

And I not only know nothing of the sort; I know the exact opposite. Or someone other than just you would've complained about this here before over the years.

Frankly, if this is your attitude, DDO is better off without you. This kind of entitled BS is what makes a game's playerbase toxic. So feel free to leave and feel as self-righteous as you wish as you do so. I'd rather have fewer players who appreciate the game rather than more who demonstrate this kind of attitude.

And you really need to try some other F2P model games. You appear to lack an adequate basis for comparison as to what 'strongarming' actually looks like.

[Soap]

One of the main reasons for the plat level cap on f2p is to prevent gold farmers. Literally to prevent criminal activity that ruins the game. New f2p players aren’t supposed to be spending so much time on amassing currency in the game. There’re no good reasons for it. Just bad reasons. That aspect of the game simply isn’t meant for brand new f2p players. That’s like a rich person going and buying all the toilet paper from all the stores during a pandemic, or flashlights during a power outage. You’re not playing the game as it’s intended and that plat cap is working as intended.

That being said, I do think the plat lvl cap could be a little higher than it is now without hurting anything. But again, you don’t need to save more plat than it lets you in order to play the game as intended.

Outside of that, sure it’s a restriction, and any restriction will have someone pointing out, “hey there’s this restriction restricting me! No fair.”

If that’s enough for you not to play, that’s up to you. It didn’t bother me, and it’s definitely not hurting the population outside of the wannabe gold farmer population.

It’s DnD. Just role play that the Coin Lords won’t let you carry more plat when you’re new in town because of crime in the city. That’s basically what’s happening anyway. Problem solved.

[Soap]

Currency is limited in every game btw. It’s just perspective. You could look at DDO and go, “wow they’re really generous with how much currency players can pickup at low levels,” because you know, another solution to prevent this sort of complaint is to just drop less loot at low levels. Some games use that solution. But that solution isn’t as much fun imo. I do feel for people who simply find amassing wealth fun in games. I get it. But you just have to play longer to unlock that aspect of the gameplay that’s all. You just have to contribute to the community first essentially.

[DopeScope]

Originally posted by Soap:

Currency is limited in every game btw. It’s just perspective. You could look at DDO and go, “wow they’re really generous with how much currency players can pickup at low levels,” because you know, another solution to prevent this sort of complaint is to just drop less loot at low levels. Some games use that solution. But that solution isn’t as much fun imo. I do feel for people who simply find amassing wealth fun in games. I get it. But you just have to play longer to unlock that aspect of the gameplay that’s all. You just have to contribute to the community first essentially.

LOL gold is not limited in GW2, ESO, and many others. it's not about amassing wealth it's about being able to vendor items and not getting pop ups that tell you you need to spend money to make more or sell items lmao....

You guys are missing my whole point though. The reason I dislike it is that experience up to that point is excellent and then BOOM here's the catch. When they could simply be like at level 5 or what ever level early on they could be like hey try our VIP get more rewards and content here try it out for 24 hours. That's how they should sell it not ram it down your throat by limiting your ability to make money and have bag space. ESO did this when I first played giving players VIP for free for 7 days and then guess what I subbed for months after that because they were good about it.

As for gold sellers they won't sit here trying to sell gold in a pretty much dead mmo so that's a moot point and we all know it's not about that they want you to buy VIP that's it that's what the cap is for.

[DopeScope]

Originally posted by Doug:

Originally posted by DopeScope:

I get how you see that as I could sub or buy with real money to go premium and make it go away. I was going to sub because Its a good game and because I felt like I wasn't being forced to but then they showed me their true intention and what they really care about as a company and I just won't sub or play on principle. They're losing tons of players like this you don't have to agree but we all know it's true.

So your 'principle' is that the company shouldn't put any limits or restrictions on you as a F2P player and just HOPE you'll decide to pay? Your 'principle' is that a minor inconvenience somehow makes the game unworthy of your support? Your 'principle' is that they shouldn't try to earn the money that allows the servers to keep in operation? That's an odd principle.

It's still a good game. And you're still not being 'forced' to pay. You have encountered a minor inconvenience that doing what you planned on doing anyway would fix forever.

Your 'principle' is outright ridiculous.

And I not only know nothing of the sort; I know the exact opposite. Or someone other than just you would've complained about this here before over the years.

Frankly, if this is your attitude, DDO is better off without you. This kind of entitled BS is what makes a game's playerbase toxic. So feel free to leave and feel as self-righteous as you wish as you do so. I'd rather have fewer players who appreciate the game rather than more who demonstrate this kind of attitude.

And you really need to try some other F2P model games. You appear to lack an adequate basis for comparison as to what 'strongarming' actually looks like.

Yeah DDO is better off without me because I don't share your flawed logic. it's because people like you who defend this crap that this game is pretty much as dead as it is. The DEVS think it's okay leave the game in the awful free to play state that it is.

I've played every free to play that you could ever think of and have been playing mmos since Ultima. and there's a only a handful of mmos that limit your money and guess what they're all as dead as DDO.

But you do you I'm sorry I've offended you because I don't agree with devs using predatory tactics for making people spend money. I don't think you understand why this game has the population it does an eventual shut down will happen to. And then people like myself will just enjoy the emulated server with no restrictions and donate to the people running it just because they're not forcing spending.

There are better ways to get a player interested in spending money in your game such as giving VIP access for 24 hours - a few days so players can see if it's even worth it. When companies do things like this it shows customers hey look we respect the time you're putting into our game and we want you to stay and encourage you to go VIP for a better experience. not log in excited to play then as you are selling items the game says " can't sell anymore items you've reached your gold cap sub to remove restrictions" lmao....

But what ever guess I'm just super entitled cause I don't want to be treated like some whale who is only good for the money that I may provide for them.

[Soap]

Originally posted by DopeScope:

LOL gold is not limited in GW2, ESO, and many others.

Haha. Yes it is. You've not comprehended what I said. Whether on purpose or not I don't know. Don't care. What I said is correct: how much currency you can gain in a game is part of the design. What you've said here in response to that is incorrect.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

it's not about amassing wealth it's about being able to vendor items and not getting pop ups that tell you you need to spend money to make more or sell items lmao....

You're being willfully ignorant. Selling items and holding onto currency you gain from it amasses wealth. I've been there done that. We all have. The plat level cap isn't hurting you in any way. You're choosing to create a problem for yourself by playing in this specific way. Look at what you said in your OP:

Originally posted by DopeScope:

I'm level 3 about to go level 4 and then BOOM the game hits me with a you can't make anymore gold till you level up or you can SUB to not have a money cap....

Soon as this hit me I lost all interest in subbing, playing the game, or putting anymore time into it.

This is just you creating the problem for yourself at this point. It's been explained to you, and solutions have been offered. You don't even sound honest. It's already been pointed out how it's irrational to decide not to sub because of the plat level cap, when subbing would remove the plat level cap. In the first response, Tae pointed out another option that is cheaper than the Sub. You completely ignored his post which answers your OP. You were already aware of the free option, which is just to keep playing and level up. Instead of selecting an option to overcome the problem, you've chosen to maintain the problem that you created for yourself so you can straw-man arguments about it with other players on here.

This link tells you the plat cap for f2p players for each level: https://ddowiki.com/page/Currency

This brings up yet another option which Doug touched on, which would allow you to avoid the issue. Simply spend the plat instead of amassing it and then attempting to lie to people on here about amassing it, like you just did to me.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

You guys are missing my whole point though. The reason I dislike it is that experience up to that point is excellent and then BOOM here's the catch.

No. I even made statements which show I understand. You just chose to ignore them, and then play a semantic word game surrounding the word, "amass" which in the end is simply an untrue statement you made about it. I even agreed with you to some extent saying that I think the cap on levels could be raised a little higher without hurting anything. You ignored that, or missed that, or didn't comprehend it. Again, I don't care which. And as I already said, the other option for the devs would be to lower loot drops so it's harder to gain currency. If it were that way, you wouldn't know the difference. But the game is better as it is imo.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

When they could simply be like at level 5 or what ever level early on they could be like hey try our VIP get more rewards and content here try it out for 24 hours. That's how they should sell it not ram it down your throat by limiting your ability to make money and have bag space. ESO did this when I first played giving players VIP for free for 7 days and then guess what I subbed for months after that because they were good about it.

Finally something constructive to work with. I don't like that idea though. The way you've presented it, it's not even workable. It would just let gold farmers and other bad actors take advantage. And your idea sounds like ramming VIP down people's throats to me vs the way it is now which I don't find intrusive at all, and even less intrusive when compared to what many other similar games do.

Letting you play DDO for free at all, is how they let you try the game to see if you want to sub, or spend a handful of dollars to get premium status. You don't need to have free VIP to see what VIP is like. You can just read what it gives you. If for some reason you can't or don't want to read, you can sub for a month instead of a year. There are even still more options, but replying to you feels like a waste of time.

There's already way more free gameplay in DDO than what the majority of games give. It sounds to me that the issue for you was that you didn't know how things worked in DDO coming in, and being used to how it's done in other games meant it was unexpected for you and caused you some frustration. I think we can all understand that. We're aware DDO is different than other games. And for the record, they've been looking at different ways to monetize the game. But that doesn't mean there isn't a point to be made about DDO's success having done things the way it has.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

As for gold sellers they won't sit here trying to sell gold in a pretty much dead mmo so that's a moot point and we all know it's not about that they want you to buy VIP that's it that's what the cap is for.

You're making a BS statement here out of 100% ignorance to everything, and you know it. You're combination of ignorance to the facts and desire for my point to be moot, doesn't make it so. DDO has maintained roughly the same population numbers for the last maybe 7 years with seasonal or content release fluctuations. I've seen a lot of wannabe gold farmers in DDO over the years, they just fail thanks to the mechanics in place such as the plat level cap. And yes I still see them.

Do you even realize that you've actually suggested that DDO could somehow massively increase its player population by removing the plat level cap, while also suggesting there's no need to be concerned about gold farmers? Ignorance is bliss as they say haha.

But let's play along lol. So when DDO removes its plat level cap and gets this flux of new players (you imagined will happen), which statistically causes an increase in gold farmers because they make up a % of the population. Then what wise guy? If SSG doesn't use systems already proven to stop/prevent gold farmers, they'll have to spend more money. So then they're losing money because of the gold farmers, risking being closed down for money laundering, while also increasing their spending. You need a lot more than just wishful thinking due to a frustration about one mechanic to justify risks like that.

And you know what... For all we know, SSG has some other way to tackle gold farmers up their sleeves and come out with it tomorrow, and get rid of the plat level cap along with it, and that'd be great. I'm sure everyone here would be happy with that. But until then, it's just wishful thinking and I'll encourage you to slow your role and consider the realistic options. If you won't do that, then I'll agree with Doug. DDO doesn't need every player who comes along.

[DopeScope]

Originally posted by Soap:

Originally posted by DopeScope:

LOL gold is not limited in GW2, ESO, and many others.

Haha. Yes it is. You've not comprehended what I said. Whether on purpose or not I don't know. Don't care. What I said is correct: how much currency you can gain in a game is part of the design. What you've said here in response to that is incorrect.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

it's not about amassing wealth it's about being able to vendor items and not getting pop ups that tell you you need to spend money to make more or sell items lmao....

You're being willfully ignorant. Selling items and holding onto currency you gain from it amasses wealth. I've been there done that. We all have. The plat level cap isn't hurting you in any way. You're choosing to create a problem for yourself by playing in this specific way. Look at what you said in your OP:

Originally posted by DopeScope:

I'm level 3 about to go level 4 and then BOOM the game hits me with a you can't make anymore gold till you level up or you can SUB to not have a money cap....

Soon as this hit me I lost all interest in subbing, playing the game, or putting anymore time into it.

This is just you creating the problem for yourself at this point. It's been explained to you, and solutions have been offered. You don't even sound honest. It's already been pointed out how it's irrational to decide not to sub because of the plat level cap, when subbing would remove the plat level cap. In the first response, Tae pointed out another option that is cheaper than the Sub. You completely ignored his post which answers your OP. You were already aware of the free option, which is just to keep playing and level up. Instead of selecting an option to overcome the problem, you've chosen to maintain the problem that you created for yourself so you can straw-man arguments about it with other players on here.

This link tells you the plat cap for f2p players for each level: https://ddowiki.com/page/Currency

This brings up yet another option which Doug touched on, which would allow you to avoid the issue. Simply spend the plat instead of amassing it and then attempting to lie to people on here about amassing it, like you just did to me.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

You guys are missing my whole point though. The reason I dislike it is that experience up to that point is excellent and then BOOM here's the catch.

No. I even made statements which show I understand. You just chose to ignore them, and then play a semantic word game surrounding the word, "amass" which in the end is simply an untrue statement you made about it. I even agreed with you to some extent saying that I think the cap on levels could be raised a little higher without hurting anything. You ignored that, or missed that, or didn't comprehend it. Again, I don't care which. And as I already said, the other option for the devs would be to lower loot drops so it's harder to gain currency. If it were that way, you wouldn't know the difference. But the game is better as it is imo.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

When they could simply be like at level 5 or what ever level early on they could be like hey try our VIP get more rewards and content here try it out for 24 hours. That's how they should sell it not ram it down your throat by limiting your ability to make money and have bag space. ESO did this when I first played giving players VIP for free for 7 days and then guess what I subbed for months after that because they were good about it.

Finally something constructive to work with. I don't like that idea though. The way you've presented it, it's not even workable. It would just let gold farmers and other bad actors take advantage. And your idea sounds like ramming VIP down people's throats to me vs the way it is now which I don't find intrusive at all, and even less intrusive when compared to what many other similar games do.

Letting you play DDO for free at all, is how they let you try the game to see if you want to sub, or spend a handful of dollars to get premium status. You don't need to have free VIP to see what VIP is like. You can just read what it gives you. If for some reason you can't or don't want to read, you can sub for a month instead of a year. There are even still more options, but replying to you feels like a waste of time.

There's already way more free gameplay in DDO than what the majority of games give. It sounds to me that the issue for you was that you didn't know how things worked in DDO coming in, and being used to how it's done in other games meant it was unexpected for you and caused you some frustration. I think we can all understand that. We're aware DDO is different than other games. And for the record, they've been looking at different ways to monetize the game. But that doesn't mean there isn't a point to be made about DDO's success having done things the way it has.

Originally posted by DopeScope:

As for gold sellers they won't sit here trying to sell gold in a pretty much dead mmo so that's a moot point and we all know it's not about that they want you to buy VIP that's it that's what the cap is for.

You're making a BS statement here out of 100% ignorance to everything, and you know it. You're combination of ignorance to the facts and desire for my point to be moot, doesn't make it so. DDO has maintained roughly the same population numbers for the last maybe 7 years with seasonal or content release fluctuations. I've seen a lot of wannabe gold farmers in DDO over the years, they just fail thanks to the mechanics in place such as the plat level cap. And yes I still see them.

Do you even realize that you've actually suggested that DDO could somehow massively increase its player population by removing the plat level cap, while also suggesting there's no need to be concerned about gold farmers? Ignorance is bliss as they say haha.

But let's play along lol. So when DDO removes its plat level cap and gets this flux of new players (you imagined will happen), which statistically causes an increase in gold farmers because they make up a % of the population. Then what wise guy? If SSG doesn't use systems already proven to stop/prevent gold farmers, they'll have to spend more money. So then they're losing money because of the gold farmers, risking being closed down for money laundering, while also increasing their spending. You need a lot more than just wishful thinking due to a frustration about one mechanic to justify risks like that.

And you know what... For all we know, SSG has some other way to tackle gold farmers up their sleeves and come out with it tomorrow, and get rid of the plat level cap along with it, and that'd be great. I'm sure everyone here would be happy with that. But until then, it's just wishful thinking and I'll encourage you to slow your role and consider the realistic options. If you won't do that, then I'll agree with Doug. DDO doesn't need every player who comes along.

I didn't bother to read a single word of what you wrote It wouldn't matter if I did you will defend this game even if the devs put doodoo directly in your mouth lol. it's okay I have my opinions you have yours. We'll talk again when this game shuts down ;)

Imagine charging players to earn money, individual bag slots per character not per account, and selling stats boost to 32 for stronger characters..... I would have looked through the shop some more and found so much more bad ♥♥♥♥ but just those alone are enough to prove my point.

I'll just stick to nwn 1 & 2 better games without the cash shop and money grubbing.

[DopeScope]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

If you think DDO has it bad, try doing GW2 as f2p.

GW2 is vastly superior to this game in every way including free to play model. Only thing this game has going for it is that's it's not a bad version of real time D&D but to be honest nwn 1 and 2 does it better IMO