Need an advice for a druid

[DerWizard]

Hi, I think of returining to this game and play as a human druid, but given a complexity of this game, I thought it might be important to think in advance what stats / enhancements to pick for my character.

I want to be a tank type druid who will fight enemies in the first line (not a mage / healer), but I also would like to use spells from time to time (after all I am druid and not pure fighter). Also, I think of multiclassing and addit a couple of levels of barbarian or rogue.

My initial stats are: 15 str 12 dex 14 con 8 int 16 wis 8 cha

Feats: augmented summoning / empowered healing (I also think of taking dodge or power attack feat, or shield mastery).

Can someone experienced with this class give me a couple of advices please?

[DerWizard]

You cannot believe how many times I restarted in last couple days lol... I feel tired of that starting area... really

[殺してあげる]

LOL I'd believe it...we did warn you the blend would be a lil painful to 'get right'

okay, try this.

Like I said, make a PURE build of monk OR druid. Play it up ...eventually you can unlock 'make a character at level 4'. That should at least speed up your testing of builds, and allow you to flourish in the Harbour instead of just korthos. Bonus being if you at least make it to 100 Favour on your remakes, you're earning TP =P

Eventually you can even unlock level 7 starting (which btw is great for thief splashes...take level 1 as a thief, and level 8 as a thief.. get evasion almost off the start, and you can maximise the thief level 'dumping' into thief skills without paying crossclass penalty. If you went thief for level 1 and level 2, you'd only be able to raise your skills by 1... but if you wait 7 levels, you could dump 7 points into the thief skills each. Rather painful if you had to level up 7 times normally, but if you're doing it off character creation...


Also if you bought Shadowfell Expac WITH druid (think one of the bundles did) I think you also get an iconic class? That would let you start at 15.. which would be great for fast testing, although you'd have a huge learning curve as you suddenly had everything thrown at you at once). Or you could just pick up iconic races.. though none would really lend themselves to what you're attempting.

If anything wasn't understood that was said by anyone, just ask for clarification. Doug will present you with 15 posts of formulated eloquant reasoning. I'll also meander baffle you with random (that I swear really does make sense, but you have to look at it from 23.4 degrees =P



EDIT: totally not a slight intended by not mentioning any of the others who can/will/might chime in with their two-cents - HH, Rod, 2$hort etc

[Doug]

DerWizard původně napsal:

Guys thanks but idk, honestly I did not understand half of what you said, but I ll try to keep in mind the part I understood :) I already created my char and for now it looks great.

DerWizard původně napsal:

On the other hand, I was really surprised that bonuses to staves do not work in wild form, this made my entire feat choice useless...

Regrettably, that's my point. Druid and Monk are individually difficult classes to master. Arguably, you've picked the two classes in DDO with the most complexities and now you're seeking to combine them. Expect to run into gotchas. You can't likely foresee all of them.

[DerWizard]

Ok, if I play just druid - would it be possible for me to swap stats / feats later (when I will be able to transform into elemental) and switch my into druid / monk build?

[DerWizard]

One more question - does mental toughness feat make things better for a druid (mage) - it is one of the feats which pre-generated druids have, and it looks like druids have less sp than wizards, but idk if it sp will ever be a problem? (when I played sorcered idk remember having this issue, but I did not play for long)?

[殺してあげる]

THAT is another kettle of fish (kettle of fish? how do you fit them in the spout? sheesh :P )


You CAN do something called a Greater Reincarnate. Basically it allows you to choose a different class choice at certain points. The + value of the Greater Reincarnation Heart is how many times you can change your choice. e.g. a +5 GRH would let you choose 5 times a different class.

They are store bought, not really cheap and if you wanted to make more than 5 changes (the best they offer) you'd need to buy more than one heart.

The method they work is you are put back to Level 1, but with enough exp to be right back where you were. You then 'relevel' back up, locked to your previous class choices unless you use one of the +s. e.g. were you to GR a level 15 druid using a +3 Heart you would have to take 12 of those levels as a druid, but 3 times you could pick another class.


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If you JUST wanted to change feats you have two additional options


First there is a Mind Flayer in House Jorascu that will let you swap one feat for another feat you were eligble for at that time. i.e. a feat you could take at level 1 you could swap for a feat you DID take at level 1... but you couldn't try to sneak in a feat that required level 15 in that spot.

That method takes silver and a Sibyrus Dragonshard, the quality of the dragonshard depending on the level of the character you are trying to have swap the feat.


Secondly you can just lesser reincarnate. It's like the greater reincarnate except you have NO option to change your class choices. You merely get to pick different feats and spend your skill points differently. Good for multiple choices, or if you ate some INT tomes late in life (as raising int will not retroactively grant extra skill points).


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SP depends on your wisdom I believe, and as long as you're careful with your spell points, it's not really an issue. Especially if you're not really casting. I know on my puppy, even when firing off CC and heals, SP was almost never an issue, unless the party was really stupid :p

Sure, maybe a sorc has more SP..but they are using empower and maximise on their spells, raising their costs. Also their only real option IS to cast. A druid has martial options, minion options...not just spells.

It's like the old level 1 wizard. Combat starts, he casts Magic Missile, then (the player) goes off to read a book while the rest of the party does combat =P

[Doug]

What she said. While making feat and class changes can be done, unless you're made of money you're likely to consider it not cost-effective. Rerolling is generally simpler, easier and cheaper. You basically have to decide from the beginning what type of Druid you plan to play and pick your feats, etc accordingly. It breaks down into 3 main options, a couple of which have sub-choices.

1. Run in animal Wild Shape (and skip THF & TWF options, instead probably selecting the Natural Fighting feat). The synergy with Monk is that if you're Centered, your teeth and claws attacks will do Monk unarmed damage, which with enough levels of Monk can be a considerable improvement. Obviously you won't be taking Staff enhancements and spells. You'll focus on the Nature's Warrior enhancement tree primarily and take spells and enhancements specific to whichever of the two animal forms you prefer (most choose Wolf, for good reason).

2. Run in human form throughout. Use a staff and appropriate feats, enhancements and spells to improve staff use (probably including the Monk Hensin Mystic enhancement tree).

3. Run in human form until elemental forms become available (L13 Druid) and then as whichever elemental form you prefer. You can still focus on the same weapons as if pure human, because elementals don't have a "natural" attack. As with animal forms, there are elemental form specific spells, some of which are quite nice. My fav, Body of the Sun, is like a portable Firewall. Cast it before wading into melee and your DPS soars. (Sometimes the aggro can be killer, though.)

Obviously there's room for a bit of fudge factor. You could pick up Wolf shape at L2 and play as Wolf until you accumulate enough feats, enhancements, etc that are human form specific to make switching improve your situation. Just don't invest in Wolf form specific feats and enhancements if you're not staying that way.

[Doug]

Given what you have suggested as your interest (a staff-based melee Druid), I'd be inclined to mostly skip Wolf and Bear forms and either go pure human or human then elemental (OK, I'd do the latter).

Best options imo:
13 Druid/7 Monk (L7 spells and 1 elemental form)
15 Druid/5 Monk (Earthquake spell + 1 other L8 spell and 1 elemental form)

Every level of Druid thereafter limits your Monk enhancements and might or might not be worth it.

16 Druid gets you all 3 decent L8 spells (Earthquake, Heal and Fires of Purity)
17 Druid adds L9 spells and the other elemental form.

On the other side of the coin, the options with 5 or 7 Monk levels would allow you to take the Tier 5 Henshin Mystic enhancements, which for a staff-wielding melee would probably suit you more than any of the Tier 5 Druid options.

My final advice: Go 15 Druid/5 Monk. It gives what I think is the best balance between the two classes. Focus on the Hensin Mystic tree up to the Tier 5s.

Pick either Fire or Water elemental form, depending on which one's spells you like best. In addition to the form-specific spells, Water boosts all water and ice spells; Fire boosts all fire spells (and each form handicaps spells of the opposite element).

Form-specific spells (Elemental Toughness for either):
Water Elemental: Freezing Spray (L7), Ice Flowers (L8), Mantle of the Icy Soul (L9)
Fire Elemental: Body of the Sun (L7), Fires of Purity (L8), Anger of the Noonday Sun (L9)
(Obviously those levels mean that you might not even have some of these spells, depending on the level of Druid you choose.)

That mostly leaves you the decision of whether to take the Monk or Druid levels first (I'd probably suggest mostly Monk, possibly taking a level of Druid early for self-heal. That seems to fit the staff focus best).

[DerWizard]

I understand. Does it matter if I take druid or monk first ? It looks like starting as monk will be more beneficial but I already started as druid

[殺してあげる]

The main advantage to starting with one class over another (other than having that class available when level one) is skill points.

You get x skillpoints per level, depending on the class that was taken. At FIRST LEVEL, that value is multiplied by 4.

Both druid and monk gain 4 skill points per level, so there is no benefit there as to which you take first.

It's more in instances where one of your classes is say rogue or bard ( 8 and 6 points per level, respectively)... or is one of the 'idiot' classes (wiz, pally, fighter) that only get 2 points per level.

The difference between rogue-then-fighter and fighter-then-rogue is 24 skill points (start with 32 versus starting with 8 skill points).

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The only other advantage to picking one over another would be classes with autogranted or bonus feats. Putting those in an order might allow you to take a feat 3 levels sooner than otherwise would be able to. Likely not an issue for you until you start trying to min/max things (a thing with people who reincarnate a lot, especially when working epic destinies).


In sum: no, for your plans it shouldn't matter a whit.

[Doug]

Taking Monk levels first gets you evasion (L2 Monk) ,some Monk-specific feats earlier, as well as some investment into the Henshin Mystic Tree. Taking at least a Druid level gives you a bit of helpful self-heal and not a lot else (the spells Shillelagh and Ram's Might will be nice, too). If you haven't yet taken more than a couple of Druid levels (or poor feat choices), I'd just continue on and take the Monk levels.

[Doug]

Feats I'd consider:
Dodge (need 13 Dex)
Mobility (need Dodge)
Power Attack (13 Str)
Cleave (Power Attack)
Great Cleave (Cleave)
Imp. Crit.: Bludgeoning (BAB +8)
THF line.. maybe. The DPS isn't huge. Take if you have room.
possibly spellcasting feats, but.. probably not

Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack and/or THF feats can be taken as Monk Martial Arts feats. You get one at Monk levels 1, 2 & 6 (if you go that high), so you can take 2 or 3 of these as Monk feats, freeing your general feats for others.

[Edit]
Monk Feats: Adept/Master/Grandmaster of Forms at character levels 6/12/18
[/edit]

[殺してあげる]

Doug původně napsal:

the spells Shillelagh and Ram's Might will be nice, too).

Jump. Means you can save on skill points in jump. Helps party members with no points free for jump. Saves needing a +jump item.

And (to me) more importantly - monk forces no armour, and has stealth skills as class. Jump skill + jump spell negates that pesky -20 to jump while in stealth, leaving you fully mobile while sneaking.

Pass without Trace would also hep wth the sneaking, but a lot of low levels are filled with oozes, whose tremor sense doesn't care how ninja you are.

[DerWizard]

Thank you guys. Though, after thinking of all pros and cons I actually think of restarting as different class, I realize playing as what I thought druid / monk may be more challenging in the first game play.

So I think of playing as rogue until I can unlock 32 points, then I will play as a druid / monk.

[Doug]

DerWizard původně napsal:

Thank you guys. Though, after thinking of all pros and cons I actually think of restarting as different class, I realize playing as what I thought druid / monk may be more challenging in the first game play.

So I think of playing as rogue until I can unlock 32 points, then I will play as a druid / monk.

Bank whatever you've learned here for then. It's been fun thinking this through. One of my favorite things in DDO is planning builds. Mine may not be twinked-to-the-max uber, but I enjoy'em.