Repeating crossbow vs Great crossbow?

[cybermastah]

So I'm rolling up a rogue 6 (mechanic)/artificer 2 (battle engineer, and then going purely rogue) and was wondering which of these two would be best. I'm also investing points in inquisitive to AT LEAST be able to turn my crossbow into a dual wield situation (apparently your wielded crossbow is treated as though you were dual wielding two of it). Based on what I can tell, apparently repeating crossbows just aren't that great, but at the same time....they kind of seem like they are (at least to a guy with little knowledge on DDO and who never used crossbows in 3.5e)?

Thoughts?

Oh, also I must have some lack of knowledge on DDO here, but when I stuck a repeating crossbow on my level 15 wizard (iconic), the weapon wasn't firing quickly, it just fired as fast as a crossbow. Do I need proficiency and/or a feat to make it function as a repeating crossbow?

[Doug]

Yes, you need an exotic weapon feat to use either the Great Crossbow or the Repeating Crossbows. Iiuc, with the Great Crossbow you just get the usual penalties for lack of proficiency, but with the Repeater, it actually functions like a regular crossbow instead.

In addition, without certain Feats, a crossbow-user of any type will be gimped. They are:

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Rapid Reload
Precise Shot
Imp Precise Shot
Imp Crit: Ranged

Some are auto-granted to Artificers and/or Rangers, but I don't believe Rogues get any.

Repeating Crossbows are awesome for the first few levels, but after that, I prefer Great Crossbows. The higher base damage means less worries about mob DR. Rogue damage enhancements greatly favor Great Crossbows. (However, Inquisitor enhancements don't work on either, only on regular Light or Heavy Crossbows.)

And if you take at least 4 levels of Arti, you can grab the enhancement "Endless Fusillade" at Tier 4 (prereq is a bunch of other goodies that boost crossbow damage). It makes a Great Crossbow shoot almost as fast as a Repeater by eliminating the reload time. Used judiciously, it easily handles all the major fights between shrines, especially if you also invest in 3 levels of Extra Action Boost.

[Rodfather]

I really like Great Crossbows for my pure Rogues primarily because of the knockdown effect and also good single shot dmg (usually around base dmg 90 by lvl 18). The counter-argument is that with repeater you get three times the chance to vorpal or critical hit (if you are proc'ing with your vorpal repeater you can really motor thru stuff).

[Doug]

Originally posted by Rodfather:

I really like Great Crossbows for my pure Rogues primarily because of the knockdown effect and also good single shot dmg (usually around base dmg 90 by lvl 18). The counter-argument is that with repeater you get three times the chance to vorpal or critical hit (if you are proc'ing with your vorpal repeater you can really motor thru stuff).

It's far from 3x as fast-firing once you get Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and Endless Fusillade. I've never done a test, but when the latter's active, they seem awfully similar.

I'm running a Rogue/Arti crossbow build atm. I'll check on that as soon as I get that enhancement. Might be today.

[Doug]

Originally posted by Doug:

Originally posted by Rodfather:

I really like Great Crossbows for my pure Rogues primarily because of the knockdown effect and also good single shot dmg (usually around base dmg 90 by lvl 18). The counter-argument is that with repeater you get three times the chance to vorpal or critical hit (if you are proc'ing with your vorpal repeater you can really motor thru stuff).

It's far from 3x as fast-firing once you get Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and Endless Fusillade. I've never done a test, but when the latter's active, they seem awfully similar.

I'm running a Rogue/Arti crossbow build atm. I'll check on that as soon as I get that enhancement. Might be today.

OK. Got to L6 today on my Rogue/Arti. With RR & RS Feats, I enabled Endless Fusillade twice: once with Repeater, and once with Great Crossbow.
Great Xbow: 50 individual shots.
Repeater: 27 groups of 3 bolts (total 81 shots or about 60% more).

So it really depends on what effects vs base damage you have on the crossbows. Effects don't scale up when [W] does. So effects will proc about 60% more often with a repeater (That includes Sneak Attack damage). OTOH, the Great Crossbow's base damage is double that of a Light Repeater, so effects that multiply [W] will be more effective on it. And, of course, if you aren't bypassing DR, the greater base damage of the Great Crossbow delivers a higher percentage of the damage to the target.

Looks like pretty close to a toss-up really.

[cybermastah]

Hmm...so repeating crossbows for Vorpal, and Great crossbows for just dumping massive damage per shot :p

I'm actually keeping multiple crossbows on my character for just that! Got my repeating heavy crossbow with Vorpal + Goblinoid Bane, and my (personal favorite) Great crossbow with Keen :D

(plus other crossbows with anarchic, fire and shock)