Power Level to tr first 2 times, best class/race

[Irradiot]

So, What race/class would be best to get those first 2 tr's so as to unlock elite opener.
Things to consider might be:
1. Solo-ability of class/race, tank, dps, mixed, heals?
2. Benefit of bonus-feats from first 2 tr's to 3rd life?
3. Speed of completion, race to 20 2 times, as fast as possible.
4. Traps, include rogue levels?
ty

[殺してあげる]

*innocently* halfling monk....we're just awesome that way.

Past Life it gives +1 damage, which until you hit 'omg 6 gorillion hp' upper level crap, is nice.

Reason it's nice: monks have evasion; can get 25%+ straight-up dodge; ninja tree lets you use dex instead of str for hit/damage, and a nasty nasty stacking poison; spammable stuns/instant kill; overall good saves; incorporeal at will; full heal every few minutes just by sitting; fair amount (4+) skill points to do stealth as well as jumping/tumbling/whatever; innate fast movement; innate material dr bypass; ability to 'step' over ravines and featherfall; so on and so forth.

Monks are not super dps, but they are a nice all-rounder. As for traps? Meh, you just go right through them! (once kills off the party because they were following my monk up a ramp in Gianthold Tor...and she set off all the traps...but was running so fast SHE was clear...they..just ran into them all).

[n1x0r]

Going to exclude VIP/Bought races/classes as we are probably talking about a new player. From that:
- Sorcerers have always been powerhouses, but a first-life player does not know where the traps are, or how to jump-avoid them. Which can lead to deaths and downtime until you get 'wings'', and then you are almost already 20. Stronger with warforged anyways for quickened reconstruct.

- Barbarian is as easy as it comes. Took me a couple of days to get to 20 on a first-life barbarian during November-ish. Blood tribute early game and blood strength later makes the barbarian survive almost any situation. Traps are a non-issue even on elite with sprint boots and high hp pool. The sprint boost also means the player can rush faster through levels. Has both good AoE and good single-target. "Zoda: Pure Zergbarian" is a good template. Take out heavy-armor-proficiency.

- Ranger (AA/DWS/few points in tempest) is very versitile for any situation. The AA tree means you can switch between any kind of DR with a single bow, making it great for a first-life toon as you are not as item-dependent. Optionally it can spent points in tempest for very solid reflex-save. The build does have a slow start (until level 11 with IpS), but at that point you may aswell have dinged be level 20 - it is that easy. If you throw a few points into tempest after you have your base AA-goodies, then you have sprint boost as well.

A decent template would be "strimtom's acid arrow", but you are going to want to pick up Quicken and empower healing OR maximize at level 12 and 15. (I went with emp. for cocoon at epic levels). Pick up human as well for the extra feat. Consider if you want Shot on the run early (lvl 6) as the power of those 3 feats is backloaded into it. However, doing this would delay precision to level 18 - and that is bad. As it is a level 20 build, you may as well drop dodge-mobility-SOTR and enjoy the extra flexibility for WF:Ranged, toughness, or other half-baked-meh feats.

- Without having personally played them, I have met people that would vouch for paladin (S&B) and bard (swashbuckler). Couldn't tell you exactly how to build them or what items to pick up. But honestly, I can't imagine them being faster than the 3 above.

For the other considerations:
My problem with rogue levels is that it usually slows progression of core features in your main class, which is not good for heroic levels. The problem with pure-rogue is that harper, tomes, and 36-pts is needed to be a proper mechanic/xbow (dex-int dependency), and even with that the very crucial improved precise shot comes in way too late due to low BAB.

- The sorcerer gives +1 DC to evocation spells which is very important when leveling spell-casting classes, but not as important as spell-penetration for Crowd Control builds. Useless for all non-casters.
- Barbarian gives +10 HP, which is generally considered inconsequential for late-game. Yet, a very good boost during heroic for low-hp classes. Especially if you do not have access to +45 HP Greensteel or other goodies.
- Ranger gives +1 Ranged damage, a good feat if you intend your character to be ranged. Otherwise useless.

From the VIP/bought classes a case could be made for Warlock (as you no doubt read everywhere). My issue having played one, is that during the lower levels of heroic they cannot gain massive amounts of unrestricted false life which otherwise negates traps. (Similar to blood tribute) This means they play the same way as a sorcerer, but without the sorcerers' spell point issue. Max movementspeed is also haste.

My 3.50

[KenoZuki]

I am surprised to see that no one has said "Warlock"... A warlock will out kill any other class with ease. The problem is, a lot of warlocks aren't building correctly for DPS. They all think enlightened spirit and or chain is the best dps in the whole game, but they are wrong. Cone is the best DPS for a warlock. I mean hell... Just read the descriptions and it should make sense.

Chain - Eldritch Blast Shape: Chain: Eldritch Blast Shape: Toggle on to turn your automatic attack into a ranged magical bolt dealing Eldritch Blast damage, which then jumps to two more nearby enemies. While active you have -1 Eldritch Blast Pact damage die, and this spell scales with 95% Spell power.

Eldritch Aura: Stance: While this is active, your Eldritch Blast changes into an aura that deals the same damage as your Eldritch Blast to all foes in range every 5 seconds, and scales with 130% spell power. You cannot fire Eldritch Blasts while in this stance, but may attack normally with weapons and cast spells. Stance cooldown: 8 seconds. - - - (Level 6 it goes off every 4 seconds) - - - (Level 12 it goes off every 3 seconds) - - - (Level 18 it goes off every 2 seconds)

Eldritch Blast Shape: Cone: Eldritch Blast Shape Stance: toggle on to turn your automatic attack into a ranged magical cone dealing 1d6 force damage. While active you have -1 Pact damage die, and this spell scales with 130% Spell power. This cone attack has standard range for cone spells.

[KenoZuki]

If you still need an explanation of why warlock is the best class to start with, I will come back to edit this post :P.

[Irradiot]

mmk, i will do this then, try all of the above suggestions; and get back to you, plural, here; someday :)
anybody else?
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i like the sorc alot; i went with acid for my first tr toon; second life i am going force plus fire/acid spray/fan (forgot the name of the fire spell, lol) burning hands? as the only metas. Using sonic blast plus electric loop for crowd control.
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i like the barbarian tactic, have seen it alot, but also alot of paladin. I often thought about adding in a level of barbarian just for the run speed. Maybe i will someday. Not comfortable with multiclassing, but maybe for just tr purposes.
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not sure about the monk; everybody likes em, mostly; same with warlock; i suppose it is a 'premium' class, both of em. I have em both.
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i might like to do cleric, but the dps is just not enough for zerging; also if there were more pugs, cleric might be good; perhaps a cleric just for fun, for old times sake; certainly a survival class; have saved team-wipe many times (maybe add that barbarian level for weapons, then dwarven axe?)
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i'd say rogue, but solo is not so good, though maybe with an intim hireling? meaning not multi-xbow
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idk bard, have to look into that; some people like it (support class)
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maybe fighter with cleric hireling?
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heck, now i'm back at the start of my obsession, 9 character slots, 8 races, 1 holder; each race tr in to same race regardless of class ... so, hrmmm.
I think it might come down to what bonus feat?
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but lets go ahead and rank the classes, and potential races by 'speed to 20'
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afaik from reading the posts above we have this:

1. monk, halfling - good all around take-down and self-sufficient (were you thinking no hirelings?)
2. barbarian - zerginator
3. warlock - cone of destruction
4. sorcerer, warforged - engine of destruction
5. ranger - versatile dps

what else? change order? different comments?

[殺してあげる]

With monk, the hireling is ... welll... I take them, park them at the start, and almost always never have to call it up..it's a 'security' thing? If you're a light-side monk, you have a 'healing curse' that lets you get a tiny bit of hp per attack, that every third attack you can get a small heal off (AoE at that). If you survive the fight, you can full heal up. Mind you this is after a few levels, at low levels you cannot 'float' your ki high enough (Ki tends to drop to your Concentration skill level...there are ways to increase that, but at low levels your concentration score is too low to really work for it).

*other reasons for 'light' is their elemental combos are all party buffs: aoe blur, aoe +2 all skills, aoe anti-stun/trip, and aoe sp discount. A 'water dance' at the start of a quest saves the casters a lot on their buffing, and in a frantic battle like Devil Assault, you can keep all the buffs up on everyone constantly, while still beating things down. It's rather amusing.

The main love for monk I have is how active/twitchy it is and the speed it moves, it's more like playing something like Tera than stodgy slow LotRO.

[n1x0r]

Not sure how MightyZaxor builds the monk and not saying it is not fast or strong (as builds are not classes), but even after the recent enhancement overhaul they don't seem well received by most on the forums. I guess it gets a little more mixed up in heroic, as almost anything built well ould run elite and monk has some of the highest movementspeed.

I didn't suggest cleric/FvS because most that are interested in them want to see an enhancement overhaul - Their trees are basically outdated. That said, I have seen heroic cleric and FvS been leveled really fast with blade barrier, but that is also a level 6 spell. (Character level 11-12). So compare that to the sorcerer that could be blasting with Emp/maximized Spell-like-abilities from level 1, or the warlock with smooth gameplay using Cone from level 3-4.

Either way, because you delay the main spells I would be extra careful multiclassing casters (such as a barbarian level). If you want to run around melee'ing for the first 10 levels, then you are better off getting proficiency from race, religion, or a feat, for a cleric build.

I am not going to play sorcerer any time soon (as I have 3 sorc lives), but I would probably roll with a fire-main/acid-secondary until you get your level 5-6 spells. Then switch to lightning-main/fire-secondary. This can be done by either:
1. only picking essential acid spells (hands, melf, blast) and then switching them out with cooldown. Or
2. using blood of dragons from Gianthold favor.

Lightning/fire has the main spells split over different levels (Ball of lightning, Chain lightning, DFireball, etc.). Lightning/cold is also good, but level 6 should get chain lightning, otiluke's, and disintegrate. This makes it hard to also pick up (quickened) reconstruct, as you only have 3 spell slots. A sorcerer generally comes down to your picks of spells, which could make it confusing to play if you haven't decided on all your spells before playing.

You can't add a level of barbarian to paladin, so no need to multiclass that. The whole non-lawful <> Lawful good restriction, sigh.

I wouldn't go fighter starting out. Most of the use I have seen from fighter is from multiclassing either 1,2,6, or 12 levels. This nets proficiencies, feats, or key enhancements from Kensai or Stalwart. Very few play them pure.

A multi-class character may well be the fastest/best for solo, but they usually work around getting X amount of class levels for power spikes. E.g. if you roll a 2rogue/6fighter/12bard, the last class level (maybe 12) will come in at level 20, and your level 12 enhancements will be delayed. Just saying you should know what you are getting yourself into.

The bard I heard praise for is a swashbuckler/warchanter mix. It uses a single-hand weapon (e.g. rapier) either Single-Weapon-Fighting or with a buckler to achieve good melee-dps (from Swashbuckling tree). Then buffs itself using the natural spells (e.g. displacement, haste and greater heroism), while still being able to do proper self-healing with metamagics on cure critical wounds. You should be fine unless you walk into the trap of getting charisma on a first-life, as there won't be many points for that - the builds won't be doing any support/crowd control.

That said, I grouped with Strimtom once (the ranger) while playing his build (the irony~). His spellsinger bard wasn't far behind my (his?) ranger on kills. I think the "support" classes is mostly a mentality, try to find the offence in the builds you make and they won't be support.

Besides level 1 barbarian-hireling and level 11 Mikayl the Pious, the only hirelings I have used are clerics or FvS for healing and resurrection. I feel their A.I. tends to mess around more than it helps. I wouldn't make a build around one that could intimidate, especially if you intend to level fast.

So if were talking the fastest classes, then I would go with barbarian or ranger, and sorcerer if you have warforged available. Warlock if available. They're all powerhouses in my book.
It should be said that the arcane archer kills as fast as any of these. It is just versatile in addition to being fast.

Good starting classes would also be Bard (swashbuckler) or Paladin (S&B). The classes you are sure to reach 20 with at a steady pace.
The spellcasting classes: sorcerer, cleric, wizard, and FvS has jumps as they reach certain spells and are spell-point dependent. Something you might not be a fan of.

This gets you down to 2 classes, 3 if you got warforged, 4 if you have warlock.
My 3.5 is, on a first life, to stay away from: Artificer, Cleric, Druid, FvS, Fighter, Monk, Rogues, and Wizards. That said, you really should be considering builds and not classes.

E.g. when I say Barbarian I am considering a THF build and not TWF. A sorcerer not built as acid/cold. A warlock not enlightened before level 20.

If you are just looking for something to play, then check out the forums. Then feel free to post it here and I'll give you some feedback to tell you how to adjust it to 28-32-34 pts or first-life. Or I'll just tell you why you shouldn't play it without a certain tome, race, or piece of equipment. I would like to see a good first-life rogue or cleric build.

Edit:
3. warlock - cone of destruction (if the player knows trap locations)
2. barbarian - zerginator (for general strength 1-20, and sprints)
5. ranger - versatile dps (SP-less powerhouse after 11. That you could probably solo Chrono, Tempest, Zawabi's, and Reavers with - at level. Would be #1 or #2 if 1-11 was smooth).
4. sorcerer, warforged - engine of destruction (If the players know trap locations)
1. monk, halfling - good all around take-down and self-sufficient (were you thinking no hirelings?) (*For how it feels to play)

[Solarpower]

Barbarian or Warlock.

Barbarian, IMO, will give you more useful (for the new character) past life feat and you won't have to worry about the traps.

[Irradiot]

mmhmm, i like your points.
ok, so.. to quote, but changing the numbers and some stuff:
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1. warlock - cone of destruction (if the player knows trap locations) {elf/drow (?) sp enhancements, + harper agent; or warforged? or gnome?}
2. barbarian - zerginator (for general strength 1-20, and sprints) {h-orc has thf enhancements}
3. ranger - versatile dps (SP-less powerhouse after 11 [spells: just buffs]. That you could probably solo Chrono, Tempest, Zawabi's, and Reavers with - at level. Would be #1 or #2 if 1-11 was smooth). [Arcane Archer + splash Tempest] {elf has bow enhancements}
4. sorcerer, warforged - engine of destruction (If the players know trap locations, + how 2 get by)
1. monk, halfling - good all around take-down and self-sufficient (can pike Hire) (*For how it feels to play, fun-factor) {subject for another thread, ''most fun first-life 'build''')

++ be in a guild with good shipbuffs

- another thought might be for newbs, what good first-life 'first-time'? fighter with cleric add? or paladin? (chance for bad build with the charisma, although that gives extra heals i think?) or cleric with fighter add?
add meaning hire
For the newbs, the main idea would be easy, 'like easy button'. So, barbarian perhaps? Warlock seems kind of like a dumbed down option for newbs with cash to drop. I can't stand it, pewpewpewpewpew, even worse than the dang tinktinktink, tinktinktink of the Artificers. Hated that when it was new, cause there were like 3 in every pug. Still gets on my nerves, but after playing a multixbow rogue I got over it.
>Side question: is artificer favor limited if you don't get the challenge pack? so that you can't ever get artificer if you don't buy it?<

- rogue, i would think of it like i'm playing a new mmo that just has rogues in a ddo world. DPS is king for soloing, so max non-stealth dps, maybe with quarterstaffs. And try for that bluff trick as much as possible. Probably halfling for the steath bonus damage, anyway. And use a paladin hire, maybe, if possible (are those 'store' only?). Rogue can do heals with potions and wands at the same time, and/or scrolls. I think wands are faster, iirc. (a wf sorc hire would be interesting)

- multiclass first life: barbarian for speed, then more speed with monk or ranger or rogue, etc. purely for flavor, maybe for traps. get the evasion with rogue? or monk? Paladin for heavy armor and heals at level 4, but only good for resting heals.j

[n1x0r]

Going over the list/races:
- For warlock either drow or human. If you cannot find a use for the feat, then take drow for the +2 cha/-2 con tradeoff. For the warlock you would want to pick up Eldritch blast shape: cone in soul eater and then get as many strong pacts as you can from tained scholar.
- For Barbarian and most other melee human is generally considered the go-to. The feat is not the only reason. With 1 enhancement point you can get a seperate action boost for +20% enhancement damage (Damage Boost). This is huge and will be nerfed sometime this year.
- For ranger I would go human, but the choice matters less here. Overall a ranger is very enhancement intesive and gets large damage boost from the main Arcane archer tree. You won't have points left for racial. On a first-life you can look forward to Zawabi's, but don't count on the others solo. Elf is usually taken in Monk-Arcane-Archer builds that do not pick up ranger, because Tier 3 "Arcane Archer" opens up the AA tree for you without ranger. This does not happen until around mid-epic, and therefore those kind of monk builds are not available for heroic.
- For sorcerer warforged is a much wanted Quality of life. If you do not have access, then drow for +2 charisma or human for the extra feat (and more importantly, the feat comes at level 1.). My first sorcerer was human until 400 favor, rerolled to drow that smoothly went to 20. You shouldn't have problems on a sorcerer (except for one-hit traps - but that also counts for the warlock!).

Fighter with cleric add is not something I have suggested since we are talking about a multi-class build most might mess up. That being said, you will find it on the forums. Most seem to take around 11 levels of cleric for Quickened Heal, and then another class like fighter where they put their main enhancement points. I have no idea if they are any good, but knowing that heroic elite is a non-issue for the barbarian I just can't see them being better without sprint.

I would play the paladin pure for heroics. Other splits (such as a TWF 15/5 paladin/ranger) usually work around dex tomes and enhancements from the second class in order to optimize for epics.

If you intend to go rogue then I'll suggest mechanic. Having played a first-life kukri assassin I can say I was not impressed - to the point where that character did not make it to 20. Mechanic (with the help of harper?) uses int to damage (and hit?) while using dexterity for feats. Most builds want 21 dex for combat archery (epic feat). But since it is a heroic build you could get by with 19 for Improved precise shot. Even that won't come in before level 15 as you need 11 BAB. Basically, the different attributes will be spread thin on a first-life, while a 3rd life would have 36 points and up to +5 attribute tomes or higher. That said, halfling is probably the go-to for the sneak attack dice multiplier. I have seen mechanics tear legendary elite like butter, but again, we are talking about heroic.

If you multi-class a barbarian you are looking at delaying all your cores. I would normally never suggest it since the capstones for a Barbarian are insanely good. If you intend to Heroic TR at level 20, then it is doable. Know that evasion -will not work- as your reflex save is too low, and you would have to downgrade to light armor as well. Furthermore, multi-classing a rogue is a skill-nightmare as you are dealing with cross-class skills that have to be maxed. With a 8 intelligence the Barbarian gets 3 skill points per level, you would need 10 just to get search and disable device. The barbarian also scales very well on enhancements, meaning you would be making sacrifices to pick up skill boosts from rogue enhancement trees that normally make these skills work smoothly.

Artificer can also be bought for 995 TP. I actually spent quite a while unlocking it and then never got around to trying it out.

Again, besides the permanent hirelings (such as owlbear), I have never heard of anyone using hirelings as anything but a heal-machine. (Unless from people with 3 druid lives and augmented summoning.) But if you feel a paladin hire like 'Calleigh Hale' or 'Riswald the Pure' works for you, great!

If we are talking about easy-button builds, then I would say the ranger. By toggling "Attack" the build plays simply by back/sidepaddeling and click tab each time your target dies. Set a 'target destructable/chest' keybind for Ransack.
The warlock is considered easy since cone covers most of your immediate screen, has no resource cost, and deals considerable damage. It plays by running around holding in your attack button.
The Barbarian cleaves and then in dangerous situations kites a little until cleaves are off cooldown, or runs/jumps around to the most dangerous targets (spellcasters).
...and the sorcerer has so many spells that you need 8 action bars and a mouse with 16-buttons while still filling your keybindings from A-Z. After doing that, you'll find that most of these are extremely situational or buffs, and you will 95% of the time be doing a rotation of 3-4 spells.

Anyways, its hard to discuss all classes without going into specifics. Might be easier for you to just decide on something you find cool or a past-life feat you want and then optimize around that. If you do it this way, even a staff-rogue (or maybe even an assassin) could tear up heroic. There is a reason a template like "Pastlifenmo Lifegetter" (9 druid / 2 monk / 9 past life) was made for earlier versions of the game. For some people, it takes more time to make a build for a class and get a few pieces of gear, then it does to play something that might be subpar which they have everything for.
I am just saying the difference in leveling speed between builds that all handle elite very well is negliable.

[Doug]

I didn't see anyone mention this (though I still have to study some of the postings in depth). For straight runs to TR, pure is generally best (i.e. no multiclasses). As soon as you multi, you put off access to some of your core abilities. With a toon running into epics, that's trivial, but if you're planning to TR at 20, there's no point having a toon that hits its stride at L18.. which is not uncommon for multiclass toons. There are exceptions, of course.

[KenoZuki]

Originally posted by n1x0r:

Not sure how MightyZaxor builds the monk and not saying it is not fast or strong (as builds are not classes), but even after the recent enhancement overhaul they don't seem well received by most on the forums. I guess it gets a little more mixed up in heroic, as almost anything built well ould run elite and monk has some of the highest movementspeed.

Where did I say anything about monks lol?

Originally posted by n1x0r:

Going over the list/races:
- For warlock either drow or human. If you cannot find a use for the feat, then take drow for the +2 cha/-2 con tradeoff. For the warlock you would want to pick up Eldritch blast shape: cone in soul eater and then get as many strong pacts as you can from tained scholar.

Drow is definitely a good first race, not really because of the bonus to charisma, but more so because they get built in SR I think. Though that SR wont really help in epics, it does in heroics.

[Doug]

If you're running something like a Ranger that gets a large fraction of its feats automatically, running as Elf and taking the Dragonmark can get you about 6 uses of Displacement per rest (and the lower level DM enhancements can get you out of trouble or potentially bypass some fights; if you're looking to get to 20 asap, every fight you skip saves time).

[Doug]

Originally posted by MightyZaxor/KenoZuki:

Drow is definitely a good first race, not really because of the bonus to charisma, but more so because they get built in SR I think. Though that SR wont really help in epics, it does in heroics.

This is a good point for soloing, especially for any class with a low will save. Also, the extra build points for Drow make them an option for a lot of classes.. just not generally for melee-heavy ones.

[Irradiot]

and keep in mind healbot hire, so don't need cleric, unless just wanna go slower, less dps, but maybe never die