ENDING SPOILERS Meta Sucks: Ron Gilbert Gaslighting Fans Like Rian Johnson

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

Did anybody else feel like this was TLJ all over again?

I knew I was in for a pretentious meta twist when the game started with a retelling of the ending of Monkey Island 2, with Chucky's evil eyes removed.

Then there was the whole changing Guybrush's motivations into being obsessed with The Secret. I loved the first two games. There never was an all-consuming Secret. Again it feels like rewriting the past.

Then there is the introduction of new villains who are easily dispatched by the old ones. Seriously, I liked the new dark magic pirate kids. They felt like a decent match for both LeChuck and Voodoo Lady. But they just disappear after the first act. They show up a few times in cutscenes but that's it. Then they are killed offscreen. Lame.

The main thing is that the game felt like a massive retread, the same way TLJ felt like a bad version of ESB. We start off in Melee Island. We go to Monkey Island. We come back to Melee. We go back to under Monkey Island. We go to the Alley from Monkey Island 2.

I guess I am just disappointed. It feels like meta was used to avoid doing the hard work of coming up with characters, locations, drama, etc. Actually writing a story. Why do that when you can just redo what you did in your youth?

Meta sucks and I hope writers rediscover the lost art of storytelling.

[Priest of Syrinx]

TLJ was, in my opinion, a bad movie because of misplaced humor that rarely lands and heavy-handed social commentary, not because there was a critical commentary about Star Wars philosophy there. I think it was the only movie in the new trilogy with some (wasted) potential to be good.

That being said, I think people who don't like the game are disappointed the ending wasn't met with backlash similar to that after The Last Jedi.

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

TLJ was bad because it REPLACED a good story with meta commentary. It didn't have an original story of it's own, it just took scenes from the OT and rewrote them. There was no new content other than reframing old themes. This is my main problem with leaning on meta. It can be done well. But just using the device does not make your story instantly good.

TLJ just substituted a story with rehashed scenes from earlier movies. Luke does the unwilling teacher thing because Yoda did that. Kylo Ren delivers the shocking backstory reveal because Vader did that. Luke battles the dark lord on the other side of the door to allow for the heroes to escape because Obi Wan did that. Rey lifts all the rocks because Luke did that. It's all just references to older things that happened. It's lazy. The other movies/games did not obsessively revisit earlier material, why should that suffice now?

My issue is using meta as a crutch. For instance take Elaine. She doesn't really factor into the story at all. There is the scurvy thing and then the scene where she starts badgering Guybrush about the bad things he did, then she just kind of disappears. There is no closure to her character, no arc to speak of. She is just another mouthpiece for the writer.

[Priest of Syrinx]

Originally posted by Hazy_Maze_Cave:

TLJ just substituted a story with rehashed scenes from earlier movies. Luke does the unwilling teacher thing because Yoda did that. Kylo Ren delivers the shocking backstory reveal because Vader did that. Luke battles the dark lord on the other side of the door to allow for the heroes to escape because Obi Wan did that. Rey lifts all the rocks because Luke did that. It's all just references to older things that happened. It's lazy. The other movies/games did not obsessively revisit earlier material, why should that suffice now?

This is more true about Force Awakens than The Last Jedi, entire plot of TFA is a big rehash of A New Hope. TLJ at least does SOME original stuff: that entire ship chase scene and conflict between soldiers and a commanding officer that lasted for most of the movie was rather fresh (and, unfortunately, poorly executed).

Originally posted by Hazy_Maze_Cave:

My issue is using meta as a crutch. For instance take Elaine. She doesn't really factor into the story at all. There is the scurvy thing and then the scene where she starts badgering Guybrush about the bad things he did, then she just kind of disappears. There is no closure to her character, no arc to speak of. She is just another mouthpiece for the writer.

She was never utilized that well. In Secret she has like two scenes: introduction and appearance at the end to say that everything Guybrush did was needless. In Revenge she's mostly a framing device. She spends most of the Curse being, well, cursed and last time we see her before the outro she's tied up and taken by LeChuck. She's a little more active in Escape and Tales. Compared to the first three we see her more in Return and she actually has her agenda, it's just entirely separate from Guybrush's agenda for most of the game.

[[ZW] Ayanami]

Perfectly agree. I'd rather prefer a compelling pirate story with a mix of humor than some weird meta sh~t. Especially not multiple times in a row!

No need to buy Ron's games anymore, you'll always know how they end...

Someone also brought the point up that even if the ending wasn't perfect, the game was still enjoyable, right? Well, unfortunately the ending retconned and devalued everything that happened before - so no, it's a complete disappointment.

[Bishop Cruz]

Originally posted by Hazy_Maze_Cave:

TLJ was bad because it REPLACED a good story with meta commentary. It didn't have an original story of it's own, it just took scenes from the OT and rewrote them. There was no new content other than reframing old themes. This is my main problem with leaning on meta. It can be done well. But just using the device does not make your story instantly good.

TLJ just substituted a story with rehashed scenes from earlier movies. Luke does the unwilling teacher thing because Yoda did that. Kylo Ren delivers the shocking backstory reveal because Vader did that. Luke battles the dark lord on the other side of the door to allow for the heroes to escape because Obi Wan did that. Rey lifts all the rocks because Luke did that. It's all just references to older things that happened. It's lazy. The other movies/games did not obsessively revisit earlier material, why should that suffice now?

My issue is using meta as a crutch. For instance take Elaine. She doesn't really factor into the story at all. There is the scurvy thing and then the scene where she starts badgering Guybrush about the bad things he did, then she just kind of disappears. There is no closure to her character, no arc to speak of. She is just another mouthpiece for the writer.

I would argue that in many ways RMI does the same thing. The story in this one is the weakest of the series. It is a half baked retread of MI2 but with far less interesting locales and characters. It simply stops, entire threads are dropped and the only emotional part of the entire game is the letter in the scrapbook.

Also let's not forget it took a few weeks of TLJ settling in before people really got how bad it was. Recency bias is a powerful force.