Dishonored sets itself up for failure by discouraging high chaos play.

[SDG]

I just beat the game for the first time, running through the entire game as a pacifist, never killing anyone. This was partly because I typically enjoy no-kill playthroughs in stealth games like Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, and Deus Ex. A major factor, though, was the fact that the game explicity tells you that there are negative consequences for killing people. After each mission, the game even tallies how many people you've killed and how much chaos you've caused. From the feedback system and the information given, it felt like the game was slapping my hand for every enemy I killed. So, I made the seemingly obvious choice to never kill people, and went on a strict pacifist run. Halfway through the game, however, I realized that I wasn't having very much fun.

For a pacifist run, I slowly realized that you only had two options in dealing with enemies: sneak behind them and choke them, or use sleeping darts. Other methods are to ignore them or reload your quicksave whenever you get spotted. So, the formula is the exact same throughout the whole game: choke enemies, hide bodies, sleep-dart them if necessary, quickload over and over whenever you get spotted (because there's no real non-lethal way to deal with enemies head-on, besides limited sleeping darts), rinse and repeat. This results in an extremely limited style of gameplay that's tedious, repetitive, and overall, -not fun-.

Despite this lack of fun, I kept my fingers crossed in hopes that the game would pick up the pace and get better, but nope. After I beat the game, my ultimate reaction was an overwhelming "meh."

For a game that got 9/10 ratings overall and has been named as one of the best games of the year by so many people, I thought that I was missing something. Most people would probably have just moved on and stated the game was overrated, but I was curious. I wanted to know, what went wrong? Was it me or the game? So, I looked up some gameplay videos of how other people played the game, and I found a bunch of videos of killstreaks and other gameplay montages. And my god, the way they played looked amazingly fun.

You're actually getting into sword duels!? You can sneakily assassinate people with springrazor traps!? You can blow up grenades in mid-air by stopping time and shooting them!?! You can airblast people into walls of light!?!? YOU CAN WALK PEOPLE INTO THEIR OWN BULLETS!? My mind was blown, and I felt like I played the entire game the wrong way. I had no idea you could do any of this stuff, and I was amazed at how you could combine your powers in so many different ways and deal with enemies in whatever way you wanted.

This amazing set of tools that allows for so much creativity in -killing- your enemies is only available if you're not playing on the intent of getting low chaos. In fact, I'm pretty sure the game is meant to be played with high-chaos. Problem is, the game pretty much tells you, "Hey, don't kill people! Bad stuff happens!" right from the start. In this way, the game sets itself up for failure by telling the player to not even use their entire arsenal, to not experiment and be creative in the way you deal with your enemies. You're encouraged to limit yourself to choking enemies and sleeping darts. That's what happened to me, at least, and I definitely didn't have as much fun as I should have.

I'm replaying the game now, killing enemies, and I'm having a blast. Now I can actually use the other 90% of the arsenal the game gives me. I can quickly sneak up on an enemy from any direction and execute them with a single sword strike (the game even has different animations for different execution angles!), I can take out enemies with headshots from regular crossbow bolts, I can blow away groups of enemies with grenades (who knew that body parts actually became dismembered like that?), and I can even use spring razors to set up traps. I CAN USE SPRING RAZORS! They're so damn fun to use! Especially when you have the shadow kill ability. Your enemies simply vanish in a tornado of razor blades.

I wish someone had warned me about this sooner. Either that, or I wish that the game would encourage more high-chaos play, or include more options for low-chaos play.




TLDR: Don't play the game on pacifist mode. It's nowhere near as fun as just killing everyone using your entire arsenal of weapons, gadgets, and powers.

[peveuve]

I can't agree more, I had the exact same feeling! The funny thing is that I tried to be more or less nice (but without reloading over and over), and ended with total chaos (I am not that good, eh). To play as a pacifist is harder and less fun on the long term.
Dishonored remains a good game with a great gameplay and level design, but there is a strange lack of fun.

[Patastrophic]

Having just finished the game (on very hard) for the first time, I'd like to thank the original poster again for the tip. I had a blast. I managed to finish with low chaos having chosen to try to stay undetected as much as possible and only use lethal takedowns as a means to remain unseen, but the highlights for me were definitely the bits where I was compromised and went on a rampage to see how far I could get before dying. I got some pretty outstanding results.

Having gotten a taste of that, I think I'm going to play through it a second time with the intention of moving fast and silently and slaughtering everything... >:)

[Waste]

ANMAL a écrit :

At first, when I was reading your text I was in shock, you did not understand the philosophy of the game, it doesn't tell you to not kill anyone, it only warns you about how the future will be (dark or not) depending on your actions (high / mid / low chaos).

I have realized that this game might be a bit complicated to young people, that dont have much experience. I've seen a few kids/teenagers with "bizarre" conclusions and thoughts about Dishonored, they are clearly confused and not playing the game correctly.

You have to be a grown up to have the minimum experience and knowledge expected to understand many ideas/messages passed on these kind of games. That's why kids get stuck on missions or play the game to fast, because they simply are not playing it correctly, then they start complaining and asking for help, or even saying the game sucks. Well I don't have any advices for these kids, since this game is +18, and that's why most of them simply don't understand what's going on, they simply don't have enought experience yet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have one advice for advanced/expert players:

Want to feel what this game really has to offer? Forget normal mode. Play on HARD, and don't leave anyone alive (spare only civilians). That's how I played my first time and I have to say: Dishonored is easily one of the best games I ever played (and I am a BIG fan of stealh, assassin, creative games). Ive seen people saying they took 8-12 hours more or less to complete the story, well I took more than 30 hours on hard mode, got High Chaos in the end and almost completed every extra parallel mission there is (safe combinations, sokolov paintings, runes, bones and etc). Now that i have the real assassin experience and consider myself the real "Corvo", i will play the game again on VERY HARD and find the few things i missed the first time.

I hope i made myself clear.

ANMAL

I loved this game too, but that hard on Hard? I don't think so, but that might just be me.. I've played through the entire game on all difficulties, with all different play styles (from full on murder spree to clean hands/mostly flesh 'n steel/shadow), and of course the enemies were quite a bit harder, but that is where you have to get smarter, and more creative in your ways of killing... Which is one of the most fun aspects of the game, I remember my self reloading more for the sake of making an awesome streak or a special kill than because I died...

To what OP said,
it is true that the game can become very repetative in the way of combat when trying to be the ultimate "goodie two shoes", but that is where I really like the whole thing with the achievement Shadow, it keeps you on your toes and constantly checking everything in a sometimes almost paranoid fashion, and with it timing becomes an art... Also, focus on the characters around the world, listen to what they talk about, point the heart at guards/civies/whoever, read the posters and books that are spread around the game, take your time to look at the world, and enjoy the scenery...

[Vaingloriousn00b]

Some of the stuff said above is fairly silly. I love the game because it gave you so many choices. It didn't railroad you into any choices like some people are saying but gave you a very reaistic world to explore with some natural laws that make huge sense. I didn't want a sandbox where I could play, I wanted a world where all my actions made a difference. The different ways to deal with targets and the charactorization made it very easy to think carefully before dealing with a target. You weren't forced to do anything, the game told you that your actions affect the way the game world will react.

What other game has this kind of oppertunity for so many play throughs. For example,My first play through was how I wanted to play, I always play the first way the way I want, and consider that the way I normally played the game. I was mostly non-lethal but if I was pressed or if I hated a certain main NPC I would assassinate them. Stealthing and stealing was incredibly fun. I remember a quest where you had to help some survivers escape from an arc pylon, when I played through a second time I went to find that same colony of survivors and found a house full of weepers. Then I started remembering all the different things that happened from my first playthrough, Samuel was more unfriendly throughout the game, Emily would ask how many people I killed, people were different, there were way more weepers, and a lot more rat swarms.

All in all people shouldn't criticize this game for giving you choices. Both endings (low and high) are fantastic and a treat to play through. Playing through the dark gritty world and the more hopeful world were both piles of fun. I was a big fan of the Theif series and apart from a silent protaganist(which I dislike) this game was on par or better. Play it how you want. Both ways are a lot of fun, having that choice and that change is the best part.

[Rafael Freeman]

Vainglouriousn00b a écrit :

Some of the stuff said above is fairly silly. I love the game because it gave you so many choices. It didn't railroad you into any choices like some people are saying but gave you a very reaistic world to explore with some natural laws that make huge sense. I didn't want a sandbox where I could play, I wanted a world where all my actions made a difference. The different ways to deal with targets and the charactorization made it very easy to think carefully before dealing with a target. You weren't forced to do anything, the game told you that your actions affect the way the game world will react.

What other game has this kind of oppertunity for so many play throughs. For example,My first play through was how I wanted to play, I always play the first way the way I want, and consider that the way I normally played the game. I was mostly non-lethal but if I was pressed or if I hated a certain main NPC I would assassinate them. Stealthing and stealing was incredibly fun. I remember a quest where you had to help some survivers escape from an arc pylon, when I played through a second time I went to find that same colony of survivors and found a house full of weepers. Then I started remembering all the different things that happened from my first playthrough, Samuel was more unfriendly throughout the game, Emily would ask how many people I killed, people were different, there were way more weepers, and a lot more rat swarms.

All in all people shouldn't criticize this game for giving you choices. Both endings (low and high) are fantastic and a treat to play through. Playing through the dark gritty world and the more hopeful world were both piles of fun. I was a big fan of the Theif series and apart from a silent protaganist(which I dislike) this game was on par or better. Play it how you want. Both ways are a lot of fun, having that choice and that change is the best part.

I like having choices. The problem that I have with Dishonoured is that I would like more choices. It’s very much like the OP said. Once you choose to keep killing at a minimum, the game play becomes repetitive. Still fun, but it could have been better.

[Harpuea]

I understand the OP. A lot of games seemingly put a negative incentive on killing people right from the start by having a good/bad ending karma system. The sad thing is, the good route usually underdeveloped/boring. The game may give you the option of being nice or bad, but clearly the bad side is more catered for. As a person, I find it natural to do the pacifist run on the first game. Others might like the opposite and massacre everyone on their first run.

Like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution, I just dart, hack, cloak, and choke my way to the end without going on a killing spree. The game even give you an option of going non-lethal on your first mission after prologue. However, that gets boring fast. It is not a challenge either, it is just a matter of patience. Waiting for guards to split up and and stuff like that. Even when you have to save your pilot(forgot her name), you CANT even kill the mercs witthout breaking the pacifist route. That is just poor game development. No choices and options to hand the situation other than letting her die. However, what kept me compelled do the pacifist run was the story dialogue aspect. You can talk to key characters diplomatically.

The hacking of computers and reading the emails let you know a little more about the story. Sadly, hacking is pretty boring too, It is just but a tiny incentive to keep the pacifist run going. I wish devs or story scenario writers or whoever sets up the system don't put an iron law that states killing will give negative karma. Or simply add more fun things to do if you want to do non-lethal. Like puzzles and quests and stuff like that to avoid killing even if you can kill everyone and be done with it.

No wonder video games gets bad rep, the devs makes it uninteresting and bland to play the "nice guy"/"ally of justice". They rather incite violence than caters to players that like to solve problems diplomatically or intelligently. Nope, just kill them. It is easier and "funner" since the devs gives you 100 types of lethal weapons vs darts or choking out. Playing the killer is encouraged and more developed for, even in games with good and bad routes.

I play games with stealth elements and good/bad end because I expect them to offer more than just mindless killing. If I want to repeatedly shoot people in the face or repeatedly stab people in the face I would play an FPS or Chivalry.

I am typing this as I download Dishonored. I will play the pacifist style since it is more natural for me to do. Killing is actually a conscious choice even when I play video games with multiple endings. I kind of know what expect since OP notice Dishonored have the same problem as many other games regarding playing the good guy. Time for some more choking and darting I suppose.

[Patastrophic]

Harpuea a écrit :

Even when you have to save your pilot(forgot her name), you CANT even kill the mercs witthout breaking the pacifist route.

I saw a video somewhere demonstrating that with a fully loaded dart gun, this is actually done really easily as long as you're quick. I still haven't done a pacifist playthrough of HR, but will admit that it seemed much, much easier to just have everyone take a short nap than it was to kill them with live fire.

I absolutely see your point, though. In this case, it may have even seemed like she couldn't be saved.

[Terminus]

Well, in DX:HR most of the enemies are mercenaries, and in Dishonored a lot of them are just beat cops, essentially, so I think there's a sort of moral difference there. But, I don't really have a problem with the way killing is sort of "penalized" in either game.

I mean, let's you have to accomplish objective X in a large building, and it's patrolled by guards. If a guard hears gunfire, or finds another guard dead (or even unconscious), that guard will become pretty suspicious, if not downright alarmed, and will certainly tell every other guard that something's up. They'll all probably start paying much more attention to their surroundings, and will be much more likely to regard some random person sneaking around as a threat. And, generally, if you go around killing people (or assassinating high-profile political figures) people tend to have a low opinion of you, and the prospect of a mass murderer running around loose tends to have a destabilizing and demoralizing effect on a community. So it makes sense to me, really, the way both games handle things.

I think Dishonored definitely has more interesting ways to kill people, but it also seems like it does give you a fair bit of leeway before you start to really change the outcome of the game or the chaos level of the city. I get the impression so far that it has a lot more to do with how conspicuous you are rather than how much violence you inflict. I've smoked a few baddies here and there and still come out with low chaos, but I've taken care to do so without witnesses and to hide the bodies as best I can. I'm not all that worried about getting Ghost or the no-kill thing either, though. So, thus far, I haven't really felt that hamstrung by the chaos system. I play as a sneaky-type guy, which I think is what the game is pointing you towards, and part of that is not going on a bloodthirsty murder spree in the town square. Just like in DX, there are paths you can take and skills you can get that would bolster that play style, but there seem to be more that lean towards keeping a low profile, violent or not.

Btw, a pacifist doesn't believe in violence for any reason, even to save a life, so it's totally reasonable that the pilot scenario plays out the way it does. It's a tough moral call. Or, it's a pain in the a$$ if you're trying to get that achievement, depending on your perspective.

[Alexomenos]

I just finished the game on the hardest dificulty with low chaos... But I did so with nearly all the "violent" achievments and alot of creative kills.
It's the players who want 0% kills that make it boring and rpetitive: I, for one thought the choking thing was stupid (not even a soldier is that effective at knocking someone unconsious), so I killed every time I needed a guard eliminated. Still got low chaos, I just avoided killing the guards I deemed "good" (For axample, there is a guard in the golden cat that says "I wonder if someone will miss me", Although it would be fun to turn him to ash, it felt much better to carve an elaborate plan to bypass him without violence).
The game is much more fun if you are honest about everything, I doomed all those I disliked, fought when I made a mistake... Besides, the bad ending is a bit more atmosferic anyway, I like both endings.

And let's not forget that the game is supposed to determine what kind of way you play, so if you enjoy the death of guards, you enjoy the chaotic(not bad) ending, it's not a punishment, it's
a diferent storyline.

[Zsavage1]

I can't believe they want 60 friggin dollars for a single player game with low if any replay ability
I believe if you wait a couple more months this will be in the 9.99 rack sooner then they think
If this game had a more open world and not so scripted, It might be worth 29.99. but as it is right now... total rip for the money I give it a 3.5/10 I dono where or who is sleeping with whom to get any kind of score higher than that.. with todays tech and putting out poop like this.. they ought to be ashame for example FarCry 3 long story and single play... plus multi play and coop in an open world and you don't even have to follow the story if you don't want to.. I mean this game was made for gamers for sure and was made old school which seems to have gotten lost in the greed somewhere .. so for this game.. I would have to think twice even at 9.99 weather or not to get this game.

[Patastrophic]

Zsavage1 a écrit :

[/quote]

Since you seem to be lost, we're talking about how awesome the game is when you play it naturally and don't try to stick to how the game tells you to play it. You're welcome.

tl;dr: Go play Call of Duty.

[8CORPION]

CreepingWraith a écrit :

Zsavage1 a écrit :

[/quote]

Since you seem to be lost, we're talking about how awesome the game is when you play it naturally and don't try to stick to how the game tells you to play it. You're welcome.
tl;dr: ... [/quote]

:D Very amusing AND very true! That's got to be be a 12 yr-old's troll post as everyone knows that the game was half-price in the Steam Xmas sale recently, not to mention that other retailers have different prices depending on where you look.

[Terminus]

I just finished the game and got the low chaos ending, and I did it by essentially playing the way that felt natural to me. I sneaked around, I avoided guards when I could, and choked them out when I couldn't. Towards the end, especially after the big plot twist, I killed guards that were in awkward places for sneaking (the dust thing helps a lot). When I was detected, if I could fight my way clear I would, and if people died as a result, so be it. On the last map, I had something like 30 kills, but still had a low chaos ending due to the missions beforehand.

I will say that the ending didn't make a heck of a lot of sense, specifically the villain's behavior, but whatever. I'm looking forward to replaying missions as an ultraviolent sonofab****, just to see what that's like.

[Waste]

8corpion a écrit :

CreepingWraith a écrit :

Zsavage1 a écrit :

[/quote]

Since you seem to be lost, we're talking about how awesome the game is when you play it naturally and don't try to stick to how the game tells you to play it. You're welcome.
tl;dr: ... [/quote]

:D Very amusing AND very true! That's got to be be a 12 yr-old's troll post as everyone knows that the game was half-price in the Steam Xmas sale recently, not to mention that other retailers have different prices depending on where you look. [/quote]
Does it matter that it was half price? I think the price might be a bit high, but that's just because I'm poor, it is a great game and it is well worth the full price... No replay value? I've seen quite a few of these people claiming it has no replay value, and that I don't understand, I've played through the storyline 5-6 times now I am STILL not tired of it, but to do this you might need a certain IQ level or ability to immerse your self in the game world... And this is NOT a sandbox style game, people always compare ALL other (unless its CoD because that ♥♥♥♥ is GOD TIER no matter what....) games to sandbox games, and no ofcourse you aren't gonna get the same freakin' thing with a mission based game as with a sandbox style game, you morons.... TL:DR Idd go back to CoD, this game is for real and experienced gamers not 12 year old idiots (because not all 12 year olds are, luckily)..

[Waste]

Vainglouriousn00b a écrit :

Some of the stuff said above is fairly silly. I love the game because it gave you so many choices. It didn't railroad you into any choices like some people are saying but gave you a very reaistic world to explore with some natural laws that make huge sense. I didn't want a sandbox where I could play, I wanted a world where all my actions made a difference. The different ways to deal with targets and the charactorization made it very easy to think carefully before dealing with a target. You weren't forced to do anything, the game told you that your actions affect the way the game world will react.

What other game has this kind of oppertunity for so many play throughs. For example,My first play through was how I wanted to play, I always play the first way the way I want, and consider that the way I normally played the game. I was mostly non-lethal but if I was pressed or if I hated a certain main NPC I would assassinate them. Stealthing and stealing was incredibly fun. I remember a quest where you had to help some survivers escape from an arc pylon, when I played through a second time I went to find that same colony of survivors and found a house full of weepers. Then I started remembering all the different things that happened from my first playthrough, Samuel was more unfriendly throughout the game, Emily would ask how many people I killed, people were different, there were way more weepers, and a lot more rat swarms.

All in all people shouldn't criticize this game for giving you choices. Both endings (low and high) are fantastic and a treat to play through. Playing through the dark gritty world and the more hopeful world were both piles of fun. I was a big fan of the Theif series and apart from a silent protaganist(which I dislike) this game was on par or better. Play it how you want. Both ways are a lot of fun, having that choice and that change is the best part.

there are 3 endings dude ^^