Dishonored No Magic Challenge (Not Much Of A Discussion)

[humphrey]

SKIP TO BOTTOM IF YOU JUST WANT TO KNOW RULES IN SHORT.

So I've beaten dishonored twice, and I'm kinda bored of doing it the regular way... So I made a challenge for it! I know dishonored isn't the type of game you would think to add challenges to, but I wanted to anyway, so here is the basic rule, No magic. This does not count the "Passive" ones, such as, Vitality, Adrenaline rush (I don't know if i spelled that right or if it's the actual name), Agility, and Shadow Kill. I don't remember you ever NEEDING to have blink, other than the blink tutorial. So no blink, dark vision, etc. This challenge is supposed to make it feel more like an actual assassin, even though yes, you can't double jump in real life or make bodies mystically turn to ash. But I felt that it would be extremely hard without agility. If you get rid of blink, you can't get rid of agility, you absolutely need it. Not just for help, but some spots you are required to use one or the other. As for shadow kill, you don't really need it, but it feels weird to be able to get the rest but not shadow kill. So far I've only finished the campbell mission doing this challenge, and it hasn't been much harder, though I have a feeling it's going to be alot harder without magic, especially at the flooded district and dunwall tower. The only thing I wish I could use is dark vision, so that I can find all the money and see enemies, because with this challenge, you're gonna need all the money you can get.

Have fun on this challenge, post anything you think might make it better, or of what you think of this challenge! I know this isn't much of a discussion, but I really wanted to make my idea known.

SHORT VERSION: No using magic that goes in your hand. You may use Vitality, Adrenaline rush, Agility and Shadow Kill

[Pafti]

This is less of a challange than the Mostly Flesh and Steel achievement by itself.
I don't understand why you allow the use of Vitality, Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Kill, and instead of allowing Agility, you should just say that it's okay to use Blink in the 2(or was it 3?) instances in which you can't advance without it or Agility.

[humphrey]

Originally posted by SentoX:

This is less of a challange than the Mostly Flesh and Steel achievement by itself.
I don't understand why you allow the use of Vitality, Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Kill, and instead of allowing Agility, you should just say that it's okay to use Blink in the 2(or was it 3?) instances in which you can't advance without it or Agility.

Well, for one I had no idea that was an achievement, and also I just said no magic, I don't really use any of them normally instead of agility, and there is alot of places where you need agility or blink to get a rune, bonecharm, etc.

[Pafti]

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

Originally posted by SentoX:

This is less of a challange than the Mostly Flesh and Steel achievement by itself.
I don't understand why you allow the use of Vitality, Adrenaline Rush and Shadow Kill, and instead of allowing Agility, you should just say that it's okay to use Blink in the 2(or was it 3?) instances in which you can't advance without it or Agility.

Well, for one I had no idea that was an achievement, and also I just said no magic, I don't really use any of them normally instead of agility, and there is alot of places where you need agility or blink to get a rune, bonecharm, etc.

Agility, and the other Powers still count as Black Magic, they're just passive powers, rather than active ones. Regardless, why just the active powers? There aren't nearly as many areas inaccessible without Blink or Agility, as you make it sound, I'm fairly sure there aren't more than 5 areas in the game that hold anything of interest that you can't get to without using either power.
Also, why even get all of the Runes, Money and Bonecharms? You won't use all of the Runes, there is too much money in the game to begin with, and the vast majority of Bonecharms are useless.
I tell you why, to add to the challenge! Say people should go for 100% completion and find everything, suddenly your challenge sounds a bit more exciting.

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

...I know dishonored isn't the type of game you would think to add challenges to, but I wanted to anyway...

Dishonored is about playing creatively, making your own decisions and very much about setting challenges for yourself, if you looked around you'd find people played this game in a lot of interesting and difficult ways and encouraged others to follow suit.

If you want to make a challenge, then you might as well make it a bit difficult.
Something like: Go for Mostly Flesh and Steel, Clean Hands and Ghost while only being allowed to knock out enemies by hand. And/Or while getting at least 90% of the Coin in each level.
Or a "True Ghost" run in which you're not allowed to be spotted or interact with any enemy, no killing, no knocking out, just sneaking, distracting and more sneaking. Combine that with Mostly Flesh and Steel and disallow Blink to make it interesting.
Everything on Hard difficulty and without save scumming of course.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by SentoX:

If you want to make a challenge, then you might as well make it a bit difficult.
Something like: Go for Mostly Flesh and Steel, Clean Hands and Ghost while only being allowed to knock out enemies by hand. And/Or while getting at least 90% of the Coin in each level.

After all my playthroughs, that's something I still haven't accomplished..

Originally posted by SentoX:

Or a "True Ghost" run in which you're not allowed to be spotted or interact with any enemy, no killing, no knocking out, just sneaking, distracting and more sneaking. Combine that with Mostly Flesh and Steel and disallow Blink to make it interesting.
Everything on Hard difficulty and without save scumming of course.

That's more like it. Add to that the "Ultimate Difficulty Mod" and you'll find the challenge you're looking for.

BTW, you mentioned save scumming. That in itself can be a challenge to most players. In my first few playthroughs, I was the scumsucking worst at saving and reloading frequently. I actually enjoyed the experience of playing a full game without saving/reloading ever. (Of course, there were still those times where I made some dumb mistake and died, which reloads at the last autosave) :D

As you said, it's about being played creatively. The replay value of this game is incredible.

[aqvarivs]

My usual game play is one of 'flesh and ghost' getting most all of the collectables. In the Gentlemen Callers Mission I don't get the one rune because I don't poison the still. In most every mission including the DLC's I get all the runes, bone charms and most of the money. I usually end the missions that have several thousand in coin about 500 or so coins shy of the max. That is mostly due to the coin carried by guards out on the street level or some coin that is tied to doing something destructive. Like blowing up Rothwild's slaughterhouse. My goal being to get in and out clean with as much loot as I can carry. Plus I have this image of some guy coming along after I have left the target area and finding everyone KO'd and the place ransacked. The WTF! would be epic. :)

[humphrey]

Originally posted by SentoX:

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

Well, for one I had no idea that was an achievement, and also I just said no magic, I don't really use any of them normally instead of agility, and there is alot of places where you need agility or blink to get a rune, bonecharm, etc.

Agility, and the other Powers still count as Black Magic, they're just passive powers, rather than active ones. Regardless, why just the active powers? There aren't nearly as many areas inaccessible without Blink or Agility, as you make it sound, I'm fairly sure there aren't more than 5 areas in the game that hold anything of interest that you can't get to without using either power.
Also, why even get all of the Runes, Money and Bonecharms? You won't use all of the Runes, there is too much money in the game to begin with, and the vast majority of Bonecharms are useless.
I tell you why, to add to the challenge! Say people should go for 100% completion and find everything, suddenly your challenge sounds a bit more exciting.

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

...I know dishonored isn't the type of game you would think to add challenges to, but I wanted to anyway...

Dishonored is about playing creatively, making your own decisions and very much about setting challenges for yourself, if you looked around you'd find people played this game in a lot of interesting and difficult ways and encouraged others to follow suit.

If you want to make a challenge, then you might as well make it a bit difficult.
Something like: Go for Mostly Flesh and Steel, Clean Hands and Ghost while only being allowed to knock out enemies by hand. And/Or while getting at least 90% of the Coin in each level.
Or a "True Ghost" run in which you're not allowed to be spotted or interact with any enemy, no killing, no knocking out, just sneaking, distracting and more sneaking. Combine that with Mostly Flesh and Steel and disallow Blink to make it interesting.
Everything on Hard difficulty and without save scumming of course.

Well, there is alot of places you need agility or blink, not always to get something but to get to a mission while avoiding all the death, murder, and boring walking/running. I added passive perks because this was what I was gonna do and I just wanted to express my idea, I always play stealth because I think run in and murder everyone is kindof boring, so I never need Shadow Kill, Vitality, Or adrenaline, so I mostly wanted to experiment with them

I was having trouble between choosing Ghost or No Magic, cause I really wanted to do both, but I went ahead and went with no magic (except the passives), but Ghost (maybe no killing?) will defenitley be my next...

And seriously, I think one of the hardest parts to be undetected is the end of the first mission, there is 2 guards and you have no powers, now normally you can kill one with crossbow and hide, then repeat. But if you're doing no killing them it must be hard, if you have sleep darts it probably isn't, but I can't remember if they give you any at the beginning or not, if not I would assume throw all 3 of those bottles to distract them... Also for no magic and ghost must be hard because at dunwall tower beginning guards are everywhere, I can usually only get through unnoticed if I blink a couple times or bend time.

As for achievements, I don't really care about them.

Edit: I forgot to mention bone charms, alot of them are really helpful, like strong arms, rat scent, etc

[bvguthrie]

I think it's great to make custom challenges for yourself. As you've seen from some of the other posters, high-level Dishonored players have created much harder challenges for themselves, but do what you think is fun and what you can handle.
Since I've gotten pretty good at the game, I've planned out a really hard challenge for myself; whenever I get around to playing through the game again, this is my plan: No runes, no bone charms, no killing, no stealing, all good deeds, no bad ones. What this means is that I will only gather loot that is discarded, rather than being in someone's house, or otherwise clearly owned. I will do things like rescuing people, but will not do things like spreading infection, torturing people, and so forth. The hardest part will probably be the High Overseer, Pendleton, and Lady Boyle assassinations, since I'll have to get other people to kill those targets (branding, torturing, and sex slavery are not permissible).

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

... this is my plan: No runes, no bone charms, no killing, no stealing, all good deeds, no bad ones.

Do I assume you do allow knocking people unconscious?

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

The hardest part will probably be the High Overseer, Pendleton, and Lady Boyle assassinations, since I'll have to get other people to kill those targets (branding, torturing, and sex slavery are not permissible).

In case you aren't aware of it, there is an alternative to branding the High Overseer Campbell, while still getting the non-lethal result? And the Lady Boyle non-lethal solution should be no problem at all. If you already know all that then, in the imortal words of Miss Emily Litella (Gilda Radner), "Never Mind." :D

I'm curious to learn about your solution to the Pendleton Bros non-lethal solution without Slackjaw sending them into their own mines (...slavery not permitted). Or, have I misunderstood your meaning?

[humphrey]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

... this is my plan: No runes, no bone charms, no killing, no stealing, all good deeds, no bad ones.

Do I assume you do allow knocking people unconscious?

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

The hardest part will probably be the High Overseer, Pendleton, and Lady Boyle assassinations, since I'll have to get other people to kill those targets (branding, torturing, and sex slavery are not permissible).

In case you aren't aware of it, there is an alternative to branding the High Overseer Campbell, while still getting the non-lethal result? And the Lady Boyle non-lethal solution should be no problem at all. If you already know all that then, in the imortal words of Miss Emily Litella (Gilda Radner), "Never Mind." :D

I'm curious to learn about your solution to the Pendleton Bros non-lethal solution without Slackjaw sending them into their own mines (...slavery not permitted). Or, have I misunderstood your meaning?

There is another way to those 2? I thought you had to kill or brand Campbell, and same with Lady Boyle, but swap brand with... letting be kidnapped?

Anyway I think I'm going to stop my no magic challenge since it's kinda boring without magic (at the same time it's not), and it's a bit too easy. I think I'm going to do a ghost challenge, probably going to kill. I might eventually do the hardest dificulty, but for now I've always done the easiest, I might go up one.

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

I think it's great to make custom challenges for yourself. As you've seen from some of the other posters, high-level Dishonored players have created much harder challenges for themselves, but do what you think is fun and what you can handle.
Since I've gotten pretty good at the game, I've planned out a really hard challenge for myself; whenever I get around to playing through the game again, this is my plan: No runes, no bone charms, no killing, no stealing, all good deeds, no bad ones. What this means is that I will only gather loot that is discarded, rather than being in someone's house, or otherwise clearly owned. I will do things like rescuing people, but will not do things like spreading infection, torturing people, and so forth. The hardest part will probably be the High Overseer, Pendleton, and Lady Boyle assassinations, since I'll have to get other people to kill those targets (branding, torturing, and sex slavery are not permissible).

This seems pretty hard, alot because you can't steal, which is how, lets face it, the way we get most of the money. Not to mention a select few bonecharms can be really helpful. I also assume you can still use blink? Because you said no runes, but you have to get blink lvl one, and it doesn't require any other runes.

[aqvarivs]

I have done the game more than once total scrounging/total stealth. No sense collecting money since nothing can be purchased. I found it very challenging and was initially surprised I also stopped aquiring powers after blink2 with out really thinking about it. I worked to get the bone charms because their placement is so random that you can do the game and both DLC an never get the ones you may like best of the lot. During the game as both your loadout and found ammo is in short supply I found myself searching my memory for places where I might find sleep darts or what have you. It introduces a whole new game play. Ya, ya, I know I got things to do but, isn't there a couple of sleep darts over there someplace or a couple of spring razors. All of a sudden you are very conscience of your load out. :)

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

There is another way to those 2? I thought you had to kill or brand Campbell, and same with Lady Boyle, but swap brand with... letting be kidnapped?

High Overseer Campbell - non-lethal alternative: When you enter the Meeting Room, spill the glasses of wine on the table. Wait for Campbell and Curnow to enter the room. Follow them down to Campbells Secret Chamber. When Campbell starts talking about the painting, turn off the music audiograph. (When you do, be sure to hide behind the crates so you won't be seen.) When the music stops, Curnow turns around to see Campbell with his sword drawn. They fight. If you've hidden well enough, Curnow will win the fight, killing Campbell (This does not count against you as a kill) On the other hand, if you were spotted, Campbell will usually win, so you might want to save your game before entering the room. After Curnow kills Campbell, he walks out of the room and will escape, satisfying the objective of saving him.

Lady Boyle - non-lethal option: Identify your target, either by finding the letter from H.B. (Hiram Burrows) in one of the bedrooms upstairs or by talking to Miss White and Lord Brisby. Find the correct Lady Boyle (save your game) and talk to her. There are many variations of the converation, the right one (Hint: Be honest) will send Lady Boyle to the cellar where Lord Brisby has a boat waiting to take her away. Once you have her in the cellar, you'll have to knock her out and carry her to the boat.

As for your ghost challenge, I think you'll find that more to your liking than a no-magic run. Dishonored is definately meant to be more fun with magic. But, instead of killing, knocking people out is nearly as easy but, it makes the game a little more interesting. Whichever way you play it, you have the right idea ... to have fun.

Just FYI, due to a glitch, there's an alternative to achieve the non-lethal solution of the High Overseer Campbell. I stumbled upon this exploit while playing around in this area. When you enter the Meeting Room, switch the wine glasses so Campbell will be poisoned. Hide under the table and wait for them to enter the room. When Campbell stands still, steal the Blacklist from him. Then, as quickly as you can, leave the building and get to the back yard. If you made it in time, before Campbell actually dies, upon entering the back yard, you will see the objective message come up "Target Rescued: Curnow" folowed by "Target Assassinated: Campbell" however, in the end of mission stats, the kill will not be counted against you. Here's a video I made of the sequence ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWR2tQU7UKQ

[humphrey]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

There is another way to those 2? I thought you had to kill or brand Campbell, and same with Lady Boyle, but swap brand with... letting be kidnapped?

High Overseer Campbell - non-lethal alternative: When you enter the Meeting Room, spill the glasses of wine on the table. Wait for Campbell and Curnow to enter the room. Follow them down to Campbells Secret Chamber. When Campbell starts talking about the painting, turn off the music audiograph. (When you do, be sure to hide behind the crates so you won't be seen.) When the music stops, Curnow turns around to see Campbell with his sword drawn. They fight. If you've hidden well enough, Curnow will win the fight, killing Campbell (This does not count against you as a kill) On the other hand, if you were spotted, Campbell will usually win, so you might want to save your game before entering the room. After Curnow kills Campbell, he walks out of the room and will escape, satisfying the objective of saving him.

Lady Boyle - non-lethal option: Identify your target, either by finding the letter from H.B. (Hiram Burrows) in one of the bedrooms upstairs or by talking to Miss White and Lord Brisby. Find the correct Lady Boyle (save your game) and talk to her. There are many variations of the converation, the right one (Hint: Be honest) will send Lady Boyle to the cellar where Lord Brisby has a boat waiting to take her away. Once you have her in the cellar, you'll have to knock her out and carry her to the boat.

As for your ghost challenge, I think you'll find that more to your liking than a no-magic run. Dishonored is definately meant to be more fun with magic. But, instead of killing, knocking people out is nearly as easy but, it makes the game a little more interesting. Whichever way you play it, you have the right idea ... to have fun.

Just FYI, due to a glitch, there's an alternative to achieve the non-lethal solution of the High Overseer Campbell. I stumbled upon this exploit while playing around in this area. When you enter the Meeting Room, switch the wine glasses so Campbell will be poisoned. Hide under the table and wait for them to enter the room. When Campbell stands still, steal the Blacklist from him. Then, as quickly as you can, leave the building and get to the back yard. If you made it in time, before Campbell actually dies, upon entering the back yard, you will see the objective message come up "Target Rescued: Curnow" folowed by "Target Assassinated: Campbell" however, in the end of mission stats, the kill will not be counted against you. Here's a video I made of the sequence ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWR2tQU7UKQ

Oh, I already knew about both of those, I just thought for Campbell you meant a differnt Non-lethal way, and for Lady Boyle I believe that's what bvgu meant by sex slavery, which was giving her to that guy

Originally posted by aqvarivs:

I have done the game more than once total scrounging/total stealth. No sense collecting money since nothing can be purchased. I found it very challenging and was initially surprised I also stopped aquiring powers after blink2 with out really thinking about it. I worked to get the bone charms because their placement is so random that you can do the game and both DLC an never get the ones you may like best of the lot. During the game as both your loadout and found ammo is in short supply I found myself searching my memory for places where I might find sleep darts or what have you. It introduces a whole new game play. Ya, ya, I know I got things to do but, isn't there a couple of sleep darts over there someplace or a couple of spring razors. All of a sudden you are very conscience of your load out. :)

I'm sorry but I had no idea what you meant, bone charm locations aren't random, the bone charm you get is though (I think). And I don't get what you mean by nothing can be purchased, stuff can be purchased

[humphrey]

So i decided to stop doing the "No magic one," and I'm now doing a ghost flesh and steel playthrough, no killing, no detection, no magic other than lvl 1 blink

[aqvarivs]

I'm sorry but I had no idea what you meant, bone charm locations aren't random, the bone charm you get is though (I think). And I don't get what you mean by nothing can be purchased, stuff can be purchased

Yes, the bone charm you get is randomized. The same bone charm is not found consistantly in the same location so you may find even by game end you didn't get what you were looking for. I'm sorry you failed to get that the entire comment was based on a self imposed difficulty. Limited to scrounging means you can't purchase anything. Peiro can not be visited. You must find everything you need as you go. Puts a whole new perpective on the game. :)

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by IsNotHoomin™:

So i decided to stop doing the "No magic one," and I'm now doing a ghost flesh and steel playthrough, no killing, no detection, no magic other than lvl 1 blink

After that, if you're still wanting more, try the same playthrough but, instead of using Blink, use Agility level 1 only. Not using Blink at all and having to jump only will make for a very different game. I found that was one of the more enjoyable and challenging runs I've played.