Clean Hands when dealing with Granny Rags?

[Iggy Wolf]

So I've read that trying to actually complete the side-objective of defeating Granny Rags and saving Slackjaw would still void the Clean Hands achievement, even if she doesn't get a chance to turn into rats and doesn't see you. That knocking her out, whether via sleep darts or choking her voids Ghost and Clean Hands. Is there NO WAY to actually complete that objective without losing Clean Hands?

Is the only solution really to just steal her key while time is stopped and run straight to the sewers in order to get Clean Hands? I mean, I don't mind doing that if that is the ONLY way to get it. I've already completed the game once before actually slaving Slackjaw and defeating Granny. I just wanna make sure whether knocking her out or not really does nullify Clean Hands. Even if I only destroyed the cameo. Also, does knocking out the Royal Torturer also void Clean Hands?

[Lar Dass]

saving slackjaw will void clean hands, happened to me. The reason why is because the game triggers granny rags dying through ANY means to be the player's kill, so in my game slackjaw ended up killing her, i beat the mission and clear as day it said ghost and pacifist was both safe, so i carried on thinking everything was okay, until i beat the game and didnt get clean hands but i did get shadow, so youll likely have to steal her key after stopping time and making a run for it

[Zekiran]

You can render her unconscious three or maybe 4 times and then she will be on the ground, slackjaw will be released.

It takes work though, and you definitely would not be getting ghost for it.

[Iggy Wolf]

Well, I FINALLY got it. Although to be honest, thankfully I didn't have to do multiple playthroughs due to bugs or glitches. My last playthrough, I had killed the Torturer and Weeper Campbell, as well as dueled Daud, so I didn't have any expectation of getting it. But doing EXACTLY what other people have said in regards to the Torturer and Granny Rags vs Slackjaw, and hiding bodies away from rats, got me all 3 achievements upon completion. Now I can at least freely murder again. lol Although to be honest, being limited by Ghost, Shadow, and Clean Hands really does restrict your ability to go out even on your targets, nevermind guards who simply get in the way or secondary targets.

[Zekiran]

NICE.

Yeah I think most of us start out the first time with "Well I played Deus Ex with stealth I can do this!" VERY rapidly ending with "OMG I PANICKED I KILLED THEM ALL oh well MIGHT AS WELL KEEP KILLING".

Once you know the maps and what to expect, doing the stealth run is both considerably harder *while you're doing it* but also *much easier* to finish since you're not mucking about with angry guards, loads of rats, and terrified noisy npcs.

[TazmanianD]

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

saving slackjaw will void clean hands

Hrmmm, that's not the case unless you mean if you release Slackjaw right away. If you look around, you can find out Granny's secret, remove her powers and then knock her out a couple of times and then release Slackjaw and it doesn't count as killing Granny. I do it every time and I always get Clean Hands (well actually the first time I didn't because I do think there is a bug in here).

[Lar Dass]

Originally posted by TazmanianD:

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

saving slackjaw will void clean hands

Hrmmm, that's not the case unless you mean if you release Slackjaw right away. If you look around, you can find out Granny's secret, remove her powers and then knock her out a couple of times and then release Slackjaw and it doesn't count as killing Granny. I do it every time and I always get Clean Hands (well actually the first time I didn't because I do think there is a bug in here).

i released slackjaw right away during stop time, ran to remove her powers and let the two of them fight it out while she was powerless, i tried choking her out but she ends up spotting you when you do that
slackjaw killed her and i saw her lifeless body go down. Then i exited the mission with a perfect pacifist and ghost until i didnt get clean hands

[TazmanianD]

Yeah, don't release Slackjaw until after you've dealt with Granny rags. You need to find her cameo and destroy it. That makes her vulnerable. Then you just need to choke her out a couple of times. That can be a little tricky to do since she's got pretty good perception and I think she teleports around; I think I usually rely on Bend Time to help but it's definitely doable.

[chakkman]

Hm.. I remember having no issues to save Slackjaw non lethal.

Are you sure you proceeded like described here? https://steamcommunity.com/app/205100/discussions/0/133258593385815380/#c133258593386037748

You have to burn her cameo before any attack on her (non-lethal or not) will _not_ count as a kill, once her cameo is burnt she is mortal and you can either sleep dart her or choke her out.

[Iggy Wolf]

Originally posted by chakkman:

Hm.. I remember having no issues to save Slackjaw non lethal.

Are you sure you proceeded like described here? https://steamcommunity.com/app/205100/discussions/0/133258593385815380/#c133258593386037748

You have to burn her cameo before any attack on her (non-lethal or not) will _not_ count as a kill, once her cameo is burnt she is mortal and you can either sleep dart her or choke her out.

I actually ran through that mission a 2nd time to see if I could still save Slackjaw and have "No Kills" after choking out Granny and it turns out I could. But I didn't initially want to risk my Clean Hands and Ghost run so I decided to simply head straight for the sewers, not bothering with Granny or Slackjaw. Ultimately I got the achievements so it was worth it.

[Dopey Shepard]

Hey, I'm planning on doing a no magic/clean hands/ghost run. Basically I just ignore these sidequests altogether as they are not needed for anything especially if I've already gotten their achievements on another run?

[Lar Dass]

Originally posted by Dopey Shepard:

Hey, I'm planning on doing a no magic/clean hands/ghost run. Basically I just ignore these sidequests altogether as they are not needed for anything especially if I've already gotten their achievements on another run?

if you got the achievements, yeah ignore them