Granny & Slackjaw (Ghost, Shadow, Clean Hands)

[Anioda]

With a 150 hours of play, I thought it was about time I did the campaign with Clean Hands, Shadow & Ghost
My favorite SP game of all time, so never really bothered with achievements. but thought I'd try & see if I actually could on hard or very hard with my patience :p

I've searched Google & Steam down to it's very core, but STILL can't confirm the glitch with Granny & Slackjaw has been fixed completely

The patch years ago, said it's fixed. Many says it's not (Can't really find any new answers, so it should be fixed, but people kept repeating it a year after).
The patch also said that "the reload save" option for this was now fixed; Many says it's not.

Some say you can avoid the Granny quest in High Overseer mission, and still get Non-Lethal at the Pendletons + never run into Granny & Slackjaw down the sewer.

I am aware of what "Clean Hands" actually include, and that Granny dies from a sleep dart.

[margotbean]

One more thing: I saved all the survivors in the flooded district, and never activated the spotlights. I even carried all the corpses to the back courtyard (but only after the living people got there, because when I placed a corpse first, the objective ticked off, and the living survivors wouldn't move.)

One corpse's head clipped through a building when I dropped her, and I was unable to pick her back up. Since that particular sub-mission is clearly bugged (carrying a corpse to the designated area counts as fulfulling the objective?!), do you think that was it??

Again, thank you for whatever time you have to give me.

[cyberwiz97]

@ Made in Denmark
It sounds as if you're letting your feelings get in the way of your attempt to acquire the achievements. :) I often get that immersed into a game myself and make decisions based on sentiment. However, if you really want the trophies, you'll have to set aside those feelings and play according to the requirements of the achievements. :/

To start with, the usual recomendation is well advised ... in mission 2, don't even talk to Granny Rags at all. That way, you'll avoid the Granny/Slackjaw confrontation later on in the Flooded District completely. Don't worry about getting all the Runes and Bone Charms. When playing stealthy and with no kills, you won't really need that many.

If you're having trouble with mission 2: High Overseer Campbell, here's a video I threw together recently that will give you some ideas of what to do and what not to do. Hope this helps...
https://youtu.be/lW4lXVJTaKU

[cyberwiz97]

@ margotbean

There are basically, four ways of dealing with Granny, in the Flooded District.

1. Defeat Granny by burning the cameo. If you're careful, this method isn't that hard to accomplish. Simply avoid being detected by Granny after burning her cameo in the furnace then, subdue her non-lethally. If done correctly, you can escape the area with 0 kills and 0 detections, satisfying all four achievements' requirements, plus getting Slackjaw's 500 coin reward as well.
   
2. Help Slackjaw defeat Granny. Steal the key and release Slackjaw to fight Granny. While this method does work, it depends on a number of factors being right. First, you have to steal the key from Granny otherwise, you can't release Slackjaw. Once he is then free to fight Granny you can stand by and just watch. But, he can never defeat her unless you burn the cameo in the furnace. Once that's done, he will spit whiskey at her and slash at her with his
   sword until she's dead. To avoid rats, you can move around quietly, either crouched or with Boot Stealth, and not be detected by Granny. This method should result in no kills, no detections plus Slackjaw's 500 coin reward. It's also the most entertaining way to deal with the situation, but it's not guaranteed that Slackjaw wins the fight.
   
3. Steal the key from Granny and run (or blink, to avoid being heard by Granny). This is the easiest and safest way to deal with the situation without detections or kills although, you won't get the 500 coin reward from Slackjaw.
   
4. Help Granny. Note: Both variations* of this method will result in a kill.

The first three methods above, allow for Clean Hands, Ghost and Shadow achievements. However, either version of helping Granny will result in a kill and, therefore negates Clean Hands.

*There are two variations of 'Helping' Granny...

• Help Granny prepare Slackjaw for her stew and place him in the tub. Obviously, that's a kill.
  
• Offer to help Granny but, just sleep-dart Slackjaw. After she gives you the key, simply run or blink away. You can carry him away or leave him in his bindings. But, no matter where you leave Slackjaw's unconscious body, after you've gone, Granny apparently finds him and you're then charged with a kill.

It's interesting that, if you agree to help Granny and sleep dart Slackjaw, after Granny hands you the key, if you leave Slackjaw's unconscious body in the stocks (or anywhere else), you will be charged with a kill, even if you knock Granny unconscious. Yet, after stealing the key from Granny's belt and high-tailing it out of there (leaving Slackjaw's 'conscious' body in the stocks), you get away with no kills. Maybe, after you leave, he sweet talks her out of cooking
him? :D

Rats eating an unconscious body won't count as a kill against you so, no need to worry about that.

Replaying the mission and continuing from there is fine. As long as your game is one contiguous playthrough. So, you have the right idea.

Helping the girl in the alley is fine but a little risky as far as detections go. I know it sounds harsh but, if you just get past that area, you can come back later and get the key off her corpse. FYI, some people claim that after saving her, she walks down to the street and weepers find her and kill her, causing you to get charged with a kill. NOT true. What she does after you save her is her own fault, not yours.

I don't recall ever seeing Slackjaw after the bout in the sewers in mission 7.

Quicksaving and quickloading is a good idea. But, know that the game has a lot of false alerts like when you hear "huh?" or "what?" and the like. I'll even hear an occasional strumming sound that you normally only hear when a guards suspicions are raised, like if they hear your footstep or catch a fleeting glimpse of you and their awareness meter pops up white. Those false alerts are most evident at the start of mission 3: House of Pleasure. It happens other places as well.

A lot of players seem to have troubles with the survivors objective in the Gateward Tunnel area of the Flooded District. How I do it is to choke out the two guards near the flood light, that are talking about cadavers. If I don't, one of them goes to the arc pylon area where the survivors need to go. It complicates matter a lot. After that, I just go in the apartment building and talk to Blake, get the key, go up to the control box and rewire it, drop down and pull out the whale oil tank, then go back in and let Blake know the coast is clear. Then, I stand at the door and make sure the tallboy isn't close by before allowing the survivors to escape. It's important to stand watch until everyone is out, including Blake. Once I see the objective messages pop up, then I'll leave the area.

I've never moved a corpse to the arc pylon courtyard, and I don't know where that idea came from. I might try that out next time I'm in the Flooded District.

[margotbean]

cyberwiz97 - Thank you so much for your quick (and lengthy) reply!
I just replayed from the Granny/Slackjaw area.... and did not get Ghost or Clean Hands. >:(

I started by possessing Granny before anyone saw me. That got me the key. Then I spent at least 5 mana potions constantly stopping time so I could burn her cameo and choke her unconscious without being detected.

I got Slackjaw's reward, and left Granny unconscious. I checked her body at least 5x! Got the "no kill" and "ghost" checkboxes, but still no Clean Hands or Ghost at the end of game.

On a positive note, I found it ridiculously easy to blink my way through the fort on Kingsparrow Island without being detected. The first time I played, I made it my mission to knockout each and every guard and overseer in the place. (Did you know that every time you choke all the guards on either the beach or harbor side entrances, 3 more spawn in their place? I do! The same with inside the fort... only 4 spawn, and they come out saying "Watch out, there's a prowler on the loose")

So, I have to conclude that the problem lies earlier in the game. *sigh* I just can't imagine where, since every stats screen had both checkboxes checked. :(

I trust you when you say the girl in the alley didn't cause my mysterious kill. It was difficult to save her without being detected, but it only took about 10 reloads. lol

By the way, when I sleep-darted the first guard, the 2nd one automatically got white lightning bolts over his head. But he never saw me, since I was leaning out from behind cover. I don't think it's possible to hit them both quickly enough to avoid it. Anyway, I got the Shadow achievement, so it didn't matter. The exact same thing happened when I saved Griff from the thugs. White lightning, and still got Shadow. Guards on Kingsparrow Island saying "There's a prowler loose"? Not a problem. Got Shadow. So why is Ghost so dang elusive?!

Otherwise, I was so careful, I reloaded if I so much as heard a guard say "Huh?" -- and I don't think I needed to, as you indicated.

So there you have it. I am achievement-less but eternally grateful for your help and expertise!

[margotbean]

On the subject of the survivors in the Flooded District -- I read about the corpse thing on the Dishonored wiki, I can't claim I discovered it on my own. Someone had failed the objective repeatedly until she first moved the corpses to the courtyard, and then got the objective ticked off.

I tried it myself, but, as I said, as soon as you drop a corpse in the courtyard, the objective ticks off, and the survivers (still in the building) recite their "thank you" dialogs and refuse to leave.

Since I was knocking out each and every guard in the entire game, I didn't have a problem with them assaulting the survivors when they tried to run to the courtyard. But I did have a problem with a tallboy who made that area his personal patrol route. The survivors just absolutely refused to stream out of the building fast enough to avoid him killing them!

In the end, I had to stand in front of the door until they were all grouped together and prevent them leaving, using Dark Vision to watch the tallboy, and only let them out when the tallboy had just turned away from the door.

Even so, Boyd (or whatever his name was) Blake stayed behind and wouldn't go with the others. He actually WAITED UNTIL THE TALLBOY WAS WATCHING and THEN exited the building! And then stood there staring at the tallboy until he fired at him! And then Boyd Blake said "I thought I heard something"

Miraculously, he wasn't killed, and made it to the courtyard, and for some reason the tallboy gave up and went away.

I wish I had recorded it, because I still can't believe the cluster-f**k of coding that resulted in that scenario.

In additon, I believed the mission notes that emphasized the fact that the stilt-walkers would vacate their patrol routes and destroy the buildings, suggesting that I would have an easier time sneaking past them to the exit point.

Wrong! When I turned on the spotlights, they fired at the EMPTY building, and killed all the survivors in the courtyard anyway. EESH!!

[Anioda]

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

@ Made in Denmark
It sounds as if you're letting your feelings get in the way of your attempt to acquire the achievements. :) I often get that immersed into a game myself and make decisions based on sentiment. However, if you really want the trophies, you'll have to set aside those feelings and play according to the requirements of the achievements. :/

To start with, the usual recomendation is well advised ... in mission 2, don't even talk to Granny Rags at all. That way, you'll avoid the Granny/Slackjaw confrontation later on in the Flooded District completely. Don't worry about getting all the Runes and Bone Charms. When playing stealthy and with no kills, you won't really need that many.

If you're having trouble with mission 2: High Overseer Campbell, here's a video I threw together recently that will give you some ideas of what to do and what not to do. Hope this helps...
https://youtu.be/lW4lXVJTaKU

And that's what I did! Like I said earlier. But a positive emotion got into play here; Emilys drawing, at the ammount of chaos.
I have done everything down to the very bottom to achive this. Never been seen, never killed anyone this time. But you say, that there is a bug with the Campbell & Curnow meeting, that keeps occuring, even though I always spill the glasses.

Maybe I should try sleepdart every guards, coming from the backroom at the Meeting Chamber, that accur with this bug - and then sleepdart Curnow too.
He do runs away with his sword through the all every time, even though it doesn't affect me. :S

I actually started the campaign again, expecting to kill someone, but I thought
"Maybe I should try something new this time". And that's Ghost, Shadow & Clean Hands. I haven't kill anyone (that works, got "Din't kill anyone", but Ghost just keeps failing over and over...

BUT! I'll try one last time. Not taking any runes, not saving Granny, not saving Griff, sleepdart the guards in the backroom, not saving Curnow.

Clean Hands isn't the problem, Ghost is :(

[cyberwiz97]

@ margotbean

It sounds as if you were successful at the Granny/Slackjaw thing so, obviously, you were charged with a kill and were detected somewhere else. One of the places many players lose those acheivements is in the sewer beneath the Hounds Pit (following mission 2). The two weepers must be subdued (not killed) without you being detected. They do count against you if you do either. This is one thing that could explain why you got checkmarks for Ghost and no kills yet didn't get the trophies. There are others, of course, such as inadvertant deaths after you leave the immediate area.

Oh, and something I failed to mention before... You said, in an earlier post, you restarted a mission from the "Missions" tab in the Main Menu. I don't know why exactly but that doesn't work right, for achievements. If I recall, it was from a Bethesda Forum Admin. So, you have to manually save a game and reload from the Load Menu. I usually manually save a game when it first begins. When going for achievements, that's the best way to replay a game if you think you may have made a mistake and want to do it over.

The Kingsparrow Island mission is arguably the easiest one of all, for me. And, yes ... new guards will spawn up to three times and both the Dock and the Beach entrances as well as inside the fort itself. In fact, inside the fort there are a few different areas they will spawn from. In order to find out how many, I did several missions where I killed every single guard and allowed the maximum number of guards to spawn. The most I ever had was 88 total.

When going for Ghost, I don't advise saving the girl in the alley. It's of no consequence for the achievement so ... yeah. Just don't do it. But, if you're gonna, you were right to lean around the corner to sleep dart the guards. I also tried blinking up to the street lamp to dart them. Either way works. It's a lot easier to avoid detection if you have the Crossbow Reload upgrade and Combat Sleep Darts. :)

Btw, here's a detailed description of the detection game mechanic...
There are four levels of detection.

Level 1- One marker will appear on either side of the NPC – The NPC has caught a glimpse of your character or heard a non-threatening sound.
The NPC will not actively search.
The NPC will return to patrolling or idle after a few seconds without further alerts.

Level 2 - Two markers will appear on either side of the NPC – The NPC has seen your character or heard a threatening sound.
The NPC will actively search for a several seconds and up to a minute.
The NPC will return to level 1 after a about a minute or two without further alerts.

Level 3 – Three markers will appear on either side of the NPC, and they have not turned red. In this case, the NPC is very close to finding or being aware of your character’s presence.
The NPC will actively search, up to several minutes.
The NPC will return to level 2 after about a minute without further alerts.

Level 4 – Three markers will appear on either side of the NPC, and they turned red - The NPC has spotted your character and is actively engaging him.
The NPC will enter into combat and actively chase / attack.
This level will count as an official sighting of your character and will count against stealth-based achievements/trophies (i.e. Ghost, Specter).
If the NPC loses sight of your character, they will search for several seconds.
The NPC will return to level 2 after a few minutes without further alerts.

Friendly characters will turn into a detection if they see your character do anything aggressive/hostile (kill someone, be hostile towards the NPC, carry a dead/subdued body, etc.). They will gain the red bolts when this happens.

I wish I'd seen the same that you did with the survivors vs tallboys in mission 7. I'm definately gonna have to go back and try to reproduce that. Sounds so cool.

[cyberwiz97]

@ Made in Denmark

How did you finish mission 1: Dishonored. Did you end with Didn't Kill Anyone and Ghost both checked? If so, can you reload from there and continue to mission 2. I'm thinking that by doing that, it may clear the bug you've run into. That, or just start the game over with a New Game. It's not really that much time to spend. Especially when compared to the time you seem to have spent replaying the bugged mission. Just a thought.

I know you said you restarted the campaign again but, if you did it from the Mission tab in the Main Menu, that may not reset the mission like starting a new game would do.

[Anioda]

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

@ Made in Denmark

How did you finish mission 1: Dishonored. Did you end with Didn't Kill Anyone and Ghost both checked? If so, can you reload from there and continue to mission 2. I'm thinking that by doing that, it may clear the bug you've run into. That, or just start the game over with a New Game. It's not really that much time to spend. Especially when compared to the time you seem to have spent replaying the bugged mission. Just a thought.

I know you said you restarted the campaign again but, if you did it from the Mission tab in the Main Menu, that may not reset the mission like starting a new game would do.

Yes, got both Ghost and Didn't kill anyone at mission 1.

Naah. Mentioned it earlier, but I deleted every save game before I started - Did this, so I couldn't make a stupid mistake, by reloading an older, similar save, that would result in fail of Ghost, Shadow & Clean Hands :)

The campaign list was totally empty.

[margotbean]

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

You said, in an earlier post, you restarted a mission from the "Missions" tab in the Main Menu. I don't know why exactly but that doesn't work right, for achievements.

I was hoping that wasn't it, but I had a feeling it might be. <insert string of obscenities here>
You know, I had a save with Samuel in the boat at the start of the mission, and just didn't use it. Why why why??? Such a horrible bug! Such a horrible burn I have now.

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

I did several missions where I killed every single guard and allowed the maximum number of guards to spawn. The most I ever had was 88 total.

You have just blown my mind.

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

I also tried blinking up to the street lamp to dart them.

I spent at least 10 minutes looking for high ground to blink up to and didn't find any... how did I miss a street lamp? ...Maybe I didn't have double-jump or Blink II at that point. ??? You're making me want to replay the game to find out, though. Damn you. ;)

cyberwiz97님이 먼저 게시:

I wish I'd seen the same that you did with the survivors vs tallboys in mission 7. I'm definately gonna have to go back and try to reproduce that. Sounds so cool.

LOL, it was most exasperating at the time! But if you really aim to reproduce it, I neglected to mention a couple of steps.

1. Completely forget about the obnoxious rich couple in the back room. (oops!)
   
2. Knock out guards, disable the arc pylons.
   
3. Tell Blake the coast is clear.
   
4. Somehow get the survivers to safety.
   
5. Go back into the building, and witness Blake frozen in the doorway of the room where he and his sister were hanging out.
   
6. Talk to the couple in the back room.
   
7. Blink behind Blake (because he's blocking that doorway) and physically nudge him into the hallway.
   
8. Watch Blake come back to life and tell the rich couple the coast is clear and it's time to go.
   
9. Block the exit door until the tallboy is not looking.
   
10. Open the door and get out of the way. Follow the rich couple to the stairway up to the courtyard.
    
11. Turn around and watch Blake engage in suicidal madness.

Edit: Just tried to reproduce it myself, and couldn't. Blake went and got the couple in the back room and all exited without a hitch. Damn it.
Must have been a clipping bug combined with incredibly lucky stilt-walker timing...

[margotbean]

p.s. Thank you again, cyberwiz97, for the complete explanations and the expertise! And for taking the time to answer me. It's more appreciated than I can adequately express. <3 <3

[cyberwiz97]

margotbean님이 먼저 게시:

I spent at least 10 minutes looking for high ground to blink up to and didn't find any... how did I miss a street lamp? ...Maybe I didn't have double-jump or Blink II at that point. ??? You're making me want to replay the game to find out, though. Damn you. ;)

margotbean
There are two street lamps in that immediate area. One, at the top of the steps leading to the courtyard where the woman and guards are, and the other is in the courtyard itself, right above the dumpster behind the woman. You can get to the first one with Blink I, then lean and Blink to the second one.

As for "suicidal Blake", I tried to get that situation but, Blake doesn't get stuck. Not sure how that glitch happens but I may try again.

And, you are very welcome. I enjoy sharing my experiences with other players. For me, that's part of the game.

[cyberwiz97]

@ margotbean
The "stuck Blake" glitch may not have happened for me but, thanks to you, I was able to reproduce the "corpse" glittch. After talking to Blake the first time and getting the key, I rewired the arc pylon and shut it down. I grabbed the first corpse I could find and brought it up to the escape courtyard and was immediately shown the objective completed messages. How that was a result of an error in programming, I'll never know but, it's definately repeatable. I wouldn't have known this had you not mentioned it. Thanks again. :)

[margotbean]

Oh my Lord, cyberwiz, it's the least possible thing I could do to repay you for all your tips and help! :D
p.s. I saw at least one of the street lamps in question in your Die Hard playthrough. Can I just say "duh" a few times, and go crate myself for the night? ha ha