Questions abount Unconcious bodies.

[internaut]

First off, the two ways to play. One, with 5 bodies that disappear keeping only 5 around. Two, edit ini file to keep them all around.

ONE:

Playing with the default unconcious body count of 5(?), and we choke/dart (C/D) and leave all 5 in a room, and 3 eventually disappear, and a guard arrives to discover them, how many does he discover? 2 or 5? (Upstairs @ Boyal party)

If, as we advance through each mission, and (C/D) out everyone in our path and complete the mission with no is one left awake (5?) enemy, then who is there to find any of the remaining 5 - assuming there is always only a maximum of 5 at a time. WHY ASK? Because I have made my direction zagging one to include (C/D) so nothing goes back past me (behind) so there is no one to go back to find any sleepers, yet, some get found.

Two:

Playing with all bodies remaining, I feel, make it much more a challenge to find places to hide a body. This raises my next question.
In either play mode:

1. Does a (C/D) 'body' wake up at all and if so how long does it sleep? If 'No', jump to #3 below.
   
2. Can one body wake up and find another body still asleep and that counts as body found?
3. Can a dog find a body and it counts?
   
4. Does a dog finding a darted dog count?

i
p.s. I motion for a spall chekur. Do I have a secunder?

[rod66]

As to the first question on default settings I have to say I'm not sure but I would suspect 2 rather than five (as I'm pretty sure I have seen people go by a location where bodies were (but had all since disappeared) and not react).
As to the second question there are spawn points on some missions where if you do an action (usually a key one) new guards spawn. They aren't common but they can find bodies like any other guard, for instance I was doing Kaldwin's bridge and had to go back 3-4 loading screens as I had missed a rune at one point and discovered some of the people I had choked out had been replaced at key locations. Another point where this is clear is in KoD when you finish interrogating Rothwild and new butchers spawn at the entry.

Regarding the other questions:
1) No, sleepers stay out for as long as the mission runs
3) Not completely sure but a dog will notice that a person is out and likely bark & whine and bring someone to investigate, not sure if the dog counts as a body found but any person drawn by the dog will.
4) Not sure at all, not sure if they would bark & whine in that circumstance.

[internaut]

Originally posted by rod66:

...{brevity} Another point where this is clear is in KoD when you finish interrogating Rothwild and new butchers spawn at the entry.

Yes. And I beleive they return to floor where the whale valves are, and seem to remember some guards spawn again in the yard outside.
It has been a long time since I played the default 5 count and feel if I did, I might find it too easy compared to hiding all of them. I keep replaying Dishonored, KoD, and tBW striving for the perfect game including no bodies found.
The Devs have certainly seemed to consider all the angles.

Thanks for your response rod66 - it is appreciated.
o

[cyberwiz97]

@ internaut

One

Guards will only "find" bodies that are actually there. Bodies that have disappeared are not counted.

Two

As rod66 said, there are some missions where replacements will spawn. Those would be missions 2, 3, 4 and 9. In KoD, if you've taken the original butchers out, 6 replacements will spawn (3 will be unconscious) in the killing floor and 6 replacements will spawn (3 will be unconscious) near the entrance. New guards will also be outside when you try to leave, in addition to the Overseers holding Billie Lurk.

Wolfhounds being found dead or unconscious by guards/overseers will count. But, as for bodies being found by wolfhounds, my tests showed some inconsistancies in this regard. It is likely that a wolfhound finding a guard will count but wolfhounds finding other wolfhounds doesn't always count. From my observations, if the wolfhound barks when he finds another wolfhound, that will count. However, I've had situations where a wolfhound walks right past another dead/unconscious wolfhound, and it didn't count.

For me, bodies being found wasn't much of a concern so, my tests weren't that extensive. The best I can tell ya is, hide wolfhounds well, if you don't want any dead or unconscious bodies being found at the end of a mission.

p.s. I sekund your moshun for a spele chekir.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

@ internaut
<brevity...>

For me, bodies being found wasn't much of a concern so, my tests weren't that extensive. The best I can tell ya is, hide wolfhounds well, if you don't want any dead or unconscious bodies being found at the end of a mission.

p.s. I sekund your moshun for a spele chekir.

Wow! Thank you cyberwiz97. It reads as if you wrote the game yourself :)

Modestly speaking, I ran out of challenges. I have all the achievements and at Very Hard. So, I set the body count to keep all bodies, with the challenge to finish without any being discovered. That' a lot of bodies to hide compared to the default. I added to that self-challenge to achieve Ghost plus not killing targets, Clean hands, Flesh & Steel, Art Dealer, all sub-missions, collect all Runes, Charms, and get all money at the Boyle's Party, to make it more interesting :)

I tried, but I don't care much for the Trials - just not my bailiwick. Usually, there is only one way to succeed, and there is pattern to getting to it so putting the pattern to memory solves the challenge pretty quick. IMHO.

SIDEBAR: Yes! On the spehl ckur. I'm a bad, clumsy, two-fingered hunt & peck typist whose unchecked replies resemble Klingon-eze more than english. A onboard spell checker would make it less fearsome to attempt a question or make a reply. Or was that intentional! Oh! And a post "Preview" option - to preview our HTML flubs.

Thanks again fro your time to explain; and for your patience in trudging through my wall of text.

i

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by internaut:

Wow! Thank you cyberwiz97. It reads as if you wrote the game yourself :)

You're quite welcome, internaut. I have 2300+ hours in the game and have made a bunch of videos, primarily on gameplay mechanics and bugs. All great fun, for me.

Originally posted by internaut:

Modestly speaking, I ran out of challenges. I have all the achievements and at Very Hard. So, I set the body count to keep all bodies, with the challenge to finish without any being discovered. That' a lot of bodies to hide compared to the default. I added to that self-challenge to achieve Ghost plus not killing targets, Clean hands, Flesh & Steel, Art Dealer, all sub-missions, collect all Runes, Charms, and get all money at the Boyle's Party, to make it more interesting :)

That sounds like a good challenge. After that, if you're still up for another playthrough, do all of the above plus, collect all paintings, complerte all side missions and don't use any weapons at all. Not even the sword. (Although, in my run like that, I didn't use Blink, ever. Instead, I used Agility, exclusively.)

Edit: Added comment ...

Originally posted by internaut:

Oh! And a post "Preview" option - to preview our HTML flubs.

Definately! I could have used that just now. :D

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

That sounds like a good challenge. After that, if you're still up for another playthrough, do all of the above plus, collect all paintings, complerte all side missions and don't use any weapons at all. Not even the sword. (Although, in my run like that, I didn't use Blink, ever. Instead, I used Agility, exclusively.)
.........

In your challenge, without weapons, is our only option to sneak past River Crusts and do you get through some planks, such as when leaving Granny Rags and her prepping Slackjaw for dinner episode, and dropping into the fast moving water?

SIDEBAR:
After my 1,200+ hours, a mere pitance compared to your time served M'Lord :) I just figured out the way to neutralize all the Gentlemen Callers without being seen, or them seeing the others alseep. I learn something new every time I replay the game. Then again, I forget something recent so it's always new to me. I remember where many of the triggers are, which I'd rather not remember, but that is offset by walking in to some place thinking, wow, I know I've always entered through the other way before - I seem to have managed to come at it from a very different angle. Neat!

I can see how challenging your way would be. First I wonder about is crossing the wide gap in the boat house elevator system on the return to Dunwall. As well, it would be more interesting and harder to hide unconcious bodies when they won't vanish.
I have just restarted the game a day or 2 ago and am at the part of going after Campbell again, but when I restart again, I am going to try it your way, plus keep all bodies (none vanish), none found as part of the added on challenge.
:/SIDEBAR

I don't know about the Agility only part yet though.
Sounds more like punishment to me :)


Thank for everything,

Game On
i

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by internaut:

In your challenge, without weapons, is our only option to sneak past River Crusts ...

No, actually, River Krusts can be killed without using any of Corvo's weapons. Alert a River Krust then throw a bottle at it when it's opened. Bottles can kill Hagfish, too.

Originally posted by internaut:

...and do you get through some planks, such as when leaving Granny Rags and her prepping Slackjaw for dinner episode, and dropping into the fast moving water?

The sword isn't necessary for that, or any other boarded passage way. Use Sprint-Slide to smash through them.

Originally posted by internaut:

SIDEBAR:
After my 1,200+ hours, a mere pitance compared to your time served M'Lord :) I just figured out the way to neutralize all the Gentlemen Callers without being seen, or them seeing the others alseep. I learn something new every time I replay the game. Then again, I forget something recent so it's always new to me. I remember where many of the triggers are, which I'd rather not remember, but that is offset by walking in to some place thinking, wow, I know I've always entered through the other way before - I seem to have managed to come at it from a very different angle. Neat!

Took the words right out of my mouth. I love this game!

Originally posted by internaut:

I can see how challenging your way would be. First I wonder about is crossing the wide gap in the boat house elevator system on the return to Dunwall.

Just look for a way around the gap.

Originally posted by internaut:

I don't know about the Agility only part yet though.
Sounds more like punishment to me :)

I've actually found it to be more fun than using Blink, which is way to easy. I kinda look at Agility as a more natural (non-magical) way to get around. When combined with the Void Channel bone charm, there are only a couple places in the entire game that aren't accessable, and neither of those is necessary to reach for any reason. I found it gratifying to be able to make some of the neat jumps possible without using Blink.

Game on, indeed!

btw, if you're interested in this sort of thing, I'll let you in on a little-known exploit I found in mission 2. It's a way of dealing with Campbell in a lethal way, yet it doesn't charge you with a kill. - I say 'little known' because I haven't found anything at all on the web about it.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

btw, if you're interested in this sort of thing, I'll let you in on a little-known exploit I found in mission 2. It's a way of dealing with Campbell in a lethal way, yet it doesn't charge you with a kill. - I say 'little known' because I haven't found anything at all on the web about it.

Please - pray tell.

[Zekiran]

Well in the nonlethal version he still very much winds up dead, if that is what you mean...

[cyberwiz97]

It's quite different from any of the normal solutions. Like I said, an exploit of the game program.

When entering the Meetinbg room, you "Switch posion to Campbell's side." Then, hide under the table and wait for Campbell and Curnow to enter. As Campbell walks by you, pick his pocket for the Blackmail Journal. Now, escape the room and make it to the Back Yard before Campbell drinks the poisoned wine. You'll get the objective markers saying Campbell was assassinated and Curnow was rescued. However, at the end of mission stats, you won't be charged with his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q12DSz6rDfc&index=38&list=UUg8XVzn21W8-QOdSZcHcL4A

This method can be used and still allow the Clean Hands achievement.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

It's quite different from any of the normal solutions. Like I said, an exploit of the game program.

When entering the Meetinbg room, you "Switch posion to Campbell's side." Then, hide under the
........
This method can be used and still allow the Clean Hands achievement.

I love it. I had no idea one could even switch the glasses.
My Way has been: (or skip and just go to last sentence below) I go into meeting room, get all the goodies and coin, break the glasses, jump up on the vent above the door opposite to where they enter, and when Campbell says he'll have to do this another way, I sleep him, and immediately, Curnow as well. I grab Curnow, put him oustide the window on the ledge, back inside and brand grab Campbell. Go back get Curnow, and drop him off in the Safe Place and exit. I found that even tho Curnow sees Campbell get the sleep nod, I still get clean hands.
Maybe because when sleep-dat Campbell, everything really slows down for a few seconds and I've already been pushing the sites to Curnow and get him just as time starts to rise to normal.

I like yours better. It's shorter.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by internaut:

I don't know about the Agility only part yet though.
Sounds more like punishment to me :)

I've actually found it to be more fun than using Blink, which is way to easy. I kinda look at Agility as a more natural (non-magical) way to get around. When combined with the Void Channel bone charm, there are only a couple places in the entire game that aren't accessable, and neither of those is necessary to reach for any reason. I found it gratifying to be able to make some of the neat jumps possible without using Blink.

When I first read this the other day, I was just entering Return to Dunwall, ready to jump off Samuels boat, and decided to try and got Agilty. Forgot about Void Channel. Just playing with Agility level I now. You've no idea how many timesw I did a reload because I auto-idiot the Blink button. Habits -
QUESTION: Just level I, or do you also permit yourself the Level II Agility?
I usually just use the Blink we're given and no other powers or charms. I'm now at the lighhouse, still playing your way, and find it forced me, I don't know about others, to look for different ways and means and discovered some I didn't see before. As today's koders would say "kewl".
Yes - Agilty-only is more earthy-real than Blink, but I think the whole planet of Dishonored, being different than earth, could well have developed Blink making it normal there.

Just read your response to the exploit c/ Campbell, and am now going to see the video of your other solution to Campbell - the short way.

By the way, as I as playing Agility-only, and was after Daud. I had to keep telling myself that I don't have to choke out everyone. Just gte to Daud, th rest and pound salt for now. What a difference Agility-only makes - almost as muh as having a spell chceker here :)

[cyberwiz97]

Have you found the alternate (legitimate) non-lethal solution for Campbell, other than branding him? I'm talking about a designed solution that leaves Campbell dead but doesn't charge you with his death. You get Curnow to kill Campbell, for you.

Yes, using Agility only and finding different ways to get places makes for a very different game. More fun!

Agility level I is all that's necessary (along with Void Channel) but to me, upgrading to Agility II didn't seem to make much of a difference, other than the speed at which you jump. It just seems to make it a little quicker. I can only recall one time where I upgraded to level II and I just don't remember much about it. I do know it will not adversly affect your ability to jump.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Have you found the alternate (legitimate) non-lethal solution for Campbell, other than branding him? I'm talking about a designed solution that leaves Campbell dead but doesn't charge you with his death. You get Curnow to kill Campbell, for you.

But, if Curnow kills Campbell, is Curnow still saved and Calista(?) is happy with Corvo, or is all well that ends well if Curnow kills him?

UPDATE: I finished the lighthouse so from Return to Dunwal to end-game; I used only Agility I, forgetting again the Void Channel. It was fun too, instead of Blink.

I restarted the game again last night, this time just for the heck of it, killed, maimed or obliterated everyone (citizens included) that were in my way. The objective this time, was to get to the end as fast as possible, ignoring side missions, skipping Slackjaw, Granny Rags, and using all the short-cuts I know of, etcetera.
Not as entertaining as Agility only, or Blink only but it was better than watching Trump on the news because I kept yelling "Push the button - push the button!"

Now, I will restart it again, this time with Agility I only, maybe pull the Void Channel in if I start weeping.

[cyberwiz97]

When Curnow kills Campbell, he walks away clean and escapes. About a minute after he leaves the secret chamber, you'll see the objective marker "Curnow Rescued". Calista is happy and gives you a token of her gratitude.

The effects of this solution show up in the Flooded District at the Greaves Refinery, when you go to get your weapons cache that Daud threw away. If you branded Campbell, he will be the only one at the bottom of the building where your weapons are, where he wanders around as he is becoming a weeper. But, if you get Curnow to kill him in mission 2, he obviously won't be in the Refinery but, in his place will be four weepers to deal with.

As for the Void Channel bone charm ... it's only needed for some very tricky jumps, which aren't usually necessary. For example, in mission 3, after giving Slackjaw the "numbers", you leave the Distillery and a whaler is posted high up on the roof next to Granny's apartment. There are actually two paths you can take to jump up there but, there's only a few coin and some food to be had so, unless you're really intent on taking out the whaler, it's not really worth the effort. (But, it is fun.) Most jumps can be made without VC but, just keep it in mind, should you run into one that's becoming frustrating (or as you said, start weeping). There's only a handful like that.

Also keep in mind, there are just two places in the entire game that I couldn't get to with just Agility, that I could reach with Blink. One is a jump to the catwalk on the building next to Hound Pits (where Sokolov gets caged). At it's highest point is a rewire tool. No big loss. And the other is the watch tower platform outside Kingsparrow Fort, in mission 9. It would be nice to be able to turn it off but, it's not that hard to avoid it.