Questions Regarding Clean Hands/Ghost Run

[EtherArchon]

Hello guys, I am new to this game, and I would like to do a clean hands + ghost run first just to get all the achievements, then play around with the killings and such. Just a few questions:

1. Does not saving people count as killing them? For example, in the High Overseer Compbell mission, as soon as you enter the back yard area you will see two overseers accusing another overseer's sister of being a witch. If I do not intervene and save them, does that count against me in clean hands?

2. Do people finding enemies I choked out count against me in anyway? After each mission there is the "dead/unconscious bodies found" section, and people finding unconscious bodies that I chocked out or sleep darted does not count against me in either ghost/clean hands right?

3. If I choke people out and leave them on the floor and leave, will rat swarms come out after I have already left and kill the unconscious enemy? And if that does happen, will that count against me in clean hands/ghost?

4. At level two time bend, I can stop time completely. Under the effects of time bend, enemies won't gain alert meter if I run past their eyes, and their alert meter will rise to three lightning bars but can't break if I kill/choke before their eyes right?

5. For the Granny Rags/ Slackjaw mission, if I kill either of those two by finishing the other's quest, does it count against me in clean hands?

6. Any other tips for ghost + clean hands run is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[bvguthrie]

Be aware that clean hands + ghost is hard. If you want to do it, fine, but be prepared to reload a lot. The game must be completed in a continous playthrough without detection or killing in order to count--in other words, you can't use the mission select screen to play through a mission where you messed up; you have to start from the point where you messed up and play the game from there.
1. Not saving people does not count against you.
2. Found bodies do not count against you.
3. Natural rat swarms do not negate clean hands.
4. If time is stopped, people can't detect you until it starts again, so just get away before bend time is over. Of course, seeing bodies will make them awfully suspicious, so they will go looking for you.
5. Killing Granny Rags and Slackjaw counts against you, just like any other human.

[rod66]

1. No, If you intervene and someone gets killed as a result (like if you sleep dart one of the guys threatening Elsa and Berthold and he slides down the stairs and dies) then yes that counts but if you leave them be then it doesn't count against you (saving Elsa is a special action that lowers chaos though) .

2. No, "bodies found" doesn't count against you except for the fact that people finding bodies puts them on higher alert than they would be.

3.Yes this can happen but it will not count against you (even though in older versions it did and was a nightmare) it's still a good idea to hide bodies though.

4. Unless you have the strong arms bone charm (or insanely good timing) choking someone out will take longer than you probably have under level 2 bend time (which has a shorter duration than level 1) so it is best to not try this on a no-detect run.

5. The best advice I can give generally is to keep the interactions to a minimum and ignore places that aren't required to finish the level (like the kennels in M2, you can get spotted so easily by the dogs (which counts against ghost/shadow)).

[EtherArchon]

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

Be aware that clean hands + ghost is hard. If you want to do it, fine, but be prepared to reload a lot. The game must be completed in a continous playthrough without detection or killing in order to count--in other words, you can't use the mission select screen to play through a mission where you messed up; you have to start from the point where you messed up and play the game from there.
1. Not saving people does not count against you.
2. Found bodies do not count against you.
3. Natural rat swarms do not negate clean hands.
4. If time is stopped, people can't detect you until it starts again, so just get away before bend time is over. Of course, seeing bodies will make them awfully suspicious, so they will go looking for you.
5. Killing Granny Rags and Slackjaw counts against you, just like any other human.

Hello, regarding the Granny Rags/Slackjaw question, I read that you must choose to help Slackjaw and fight Granny Rags. Because there is an option for you to hide, wait for Granny Rags to leave the room, incinerate her cameo, and then sleep dart her. Is this true?

[EtherArchon]

Originally posted by rod66:

1. No, If you intervene and someone gets killed as a result (like if you sleep dart one of the guys threatening Elsa and Berthold and he slides down the stairs and dies) then yes that counts but if you leave them be then it doesn't count against you (saving Elsa is a special action that lowers chaos though) .

2. No, "bodies found" doesn't count against you except for the fact that people finding bodies puts them on higher alert than they would be.

3.Yes this can happen but it will not count against you (even though in older versions it did and was a nightmare) it's still a good idea to hide bodies though.

4. Unless you have the strong arms bone charm (or insanely good timing) choking someone out will take longer than you probably have under level 2 bend time (which has a shorter duration than level 1) so it is best to not try this on a no-detect run.

5. The best advice I can give generally is to keep the interactions to a minimum and ignore places that aren't required to finish the level (like the kennels in M2, you can get spotted so easily by the dogs (which counts against ghost/shadow)).

Ah thanks. Just to clarify, having three lightning rods does not count as being detected right? It only counts as detection if the lightning rods turn red and break off?

[cyberwiz97]

1. No. Saving people is purely optional, althogh it does redude chaos a small amount.
   
2. "Dean or unconscious bodies found" has negligilble affect on chaos. During gameplay, it can have the affect of raising suspicions or even setting off an alarm. But, at the end of the mission, it's only a statistic. Otherwise, no worries.
   
3. Natually occuring rat swarms eating unconscious bodies will NOT count as a kill against you.
   
4. You are correct. No detections while Bend Time II is engaged.
   
5. For Clean Hands, you must NOT kill or cause the death of either Granny or Slackjaw. (There is one obscure way to do that side mission but, it's not always successful.
   
6. Find the high routes; Crouch a LOT; use Blink to full advantage; be careful when using sleep darts (ppl falling off high places or into water wll count as a kill.

[rod66]

Originally posted by EtherArchon:

Originally posted by bvguthrie:

Be aware that clean hands + ghost is hard. If you want to do it, fine, but be prepared to reload a lot. The game must be completed in a continous playthrough without detection or killing in order to count--in other words, you can't use the mission select screen to play through a mission where you messed up; you have to start from the point where you messed up and play the game from there.
1. Not saving people does not count against you.
2. Found bodies do not count against you.
3. Natural rat swarms do not negate clean hands.
4. If time is stopped, people can't detect you until it starts again, so just get away before bend time is over. Of course, seeing bodies will make them awfully suspicious, so they will go looking for you.
5. Killing Granny Rags and Slackjaw counts against you, just like any other human.

Hello, regarding the Granny Rags/Slackjaw question, I read that you must choose to help Slackjaw and fight Granny Rags. Because there is an option for you to hide, wait for Granny Rags to leave the room, incinerate her cameo, and then sleep dart her. Is this true?

If you are doing a clean hands/ghost run then it would be best to ignore Granny in M2 as you need to interact with Slackjaw for the non-lethal elimination of the targets in M3 and if you don't interact with one of them you won't have to deal with their confrontation in M7. This will cost you 3 runes in the playthrough (2 in M2 and another in M7) but it will be worth it as it can be annoying to play that section no detection. If you get to that confrontation though you should be able to sneak up to Granny's room, burn the cameo and then sleep dart her then let Slackjaw out.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by EtherArchon:

Hello, regarding the Granny Rags/Slackjaw question, I read that you must choose to help Slackjaw and fight Granny Rags. Because there is an option for you to hide, wait for Granny Rags to leave the room, incinerate her cameo, and then sleep dart her. Is this true?

One of the more common methods is to find Granny's cameo, burn it in the furnace, hide from Granny outside somewhere, then when she can't see you, knock her unconscious. You'll automatically pick her key so you can unlock Slackjaw and get 500 coin reward.

Another popular way is to steal Granny's key off of her belt, then blink or bend time to escape without being detected. Problem with that is, you don't get Slackjaw's reward.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by rod66:

If you are doing a clean hands/ghost run then it would be best to ignore Granny in M2 as you need to interact with Slackjaw for the non-lethal elimination of the targets in M3 and if you don't interact with one of them you won't have to deal with their confrontation in M7.

Sorry rod, but I'm confused on something you say here that was also mentioned in another thread recently. Afaik, doing Granny's jobs in M2 has no affect on whether or not you can get Slackjaw to help with the non-lethal solution for M3. Or, am I missing something in what you said?

[EtherArchon]

Hello guys, I did a bit of research regarding the Granny Rags/Slackjaw question. There is indeed a way to get everything.
1. When you enter the room, do not talk to either of those two. Remain undetected, blink up the ramp to the left into the furnance room.
2. Take her cameo that is on the pillow on the bed, and place it in the oven.
3. Granny Rags will teleport behind you, and rant about how you made the wrong choice. Don't let her do that. As soon as you hear the teleporting sound effects, stop time. Pick pocket her for the keys.
4. Use the keys to open the locked door. Close the door behind you. Take the rune that Granny Rags prepared for you as your reward.
5. Freeze time again, open the door and go out, and choke her out.

[Zekiran]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by rod66:

If you are doing a clean hands/ghost run then it would be best to ignore Granny in M2 as you need to interact with Slackjaw for the non-lethal elimination of the targets in M3 and if you don't interact with one of them you won't have to deal with their confrontation in M7.

Sorry rod, but I'm confused on something you say here that was also mentioned in another thread recently. Afaik, doing Granny's jobs in M2 has no affect on whether or not you can get Slackjaw to help with the non-lethal solution for M3. Or, am I missing something in what you said?

The confrontation will occur if you do both of their missions. Slackjaw will independantly allow you to do his so that you can still do the nonlethal golden cat mission, and granny will still give you her runes if you do hers, but that means that at the end of the one area you'll have to somehow get past the two of them.

If you only do ONE of them - but not the other - or avoid either of them entirely, there will be no confrontation.

[rod66]

Originally posted by cyberwiz97:

Originally posted by rod66:

If you are doing a clean hands/ghost run then it would be best to ignore Granny in M2 as you need to interact with Slackjaw for the non-lethal elimination of the targets in M3 and if you don't interact with one of them you won't have to deal with their confrontation in M7.

Sorry rod, but I'm confused on something you say here that was also mentioned in another thread recently. Afaik, doing Granny's jobs in M2 has no affect on whether or not you can get Slackjaw to help with the non-lethal solution for M3. Or, am I missing something in what you said?

I was (unclearly) pointing out that if you ignore either Granny or Slackjaw (or both) then you don't get the confrontation in M7. As OP is doing Ghost/Clean Hands and needs the non-lethal for M3 he can't ignore Slackjaw therefore my advice to ignore Granny.

[ammonh]

I sometimes got killes on the end mission screen eventhough I never killed anybody. (Dropped the bodys right where they stood.) Since then I always put unconscious people ontop of something and never got kills again. It's those damn rats I tell ya! :P

[EtherArchon]

Originally posted by ammonh:

I sometimes got killes on the end mission screen eventhough I never killed anybody. (Dropped the bodys right where they stood.) Since then I always put unconscious people ontop of something and never got kills again. It's those damn rats I tell ya! :P

I heard it used to be that way, but they fixed that already.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by rod66:

I was (unclearly) pointing out that if you ignore either Granny or Slackjaw (or both) then you don't get the confrontation in M7. As OP is doing Ghost/Clean Hands and needs the non-lethal for M3 he can't ignore Slackjaw therefore my advice to ignore Granny.

Thanx for the clarification rod.

Originally posted by Zekiran:

The confrontation will occur if you do both of their missions. ...

If you only do ONE of them - but not the other - or avoid either of them entirely, there will be no confrontation.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. The only thing that triggers the Granny/Slackjaw confrontation, is if you simply talk to Granny in mission 2. (You don't even have to do her side jobs.) Slackjaw's jobs don't have anything to do with the confrontation in mission 7.

So, if you don't talk with her at all, you can do Slackjaw's side jobs in mission 3 and still not get the "confrontation" in the Flooded District.

[cyberwiz97]

Originally posted by ammonh:

I sometimes got killes on the end mission screen eventhough I never killed anybody..... It's those damn rats I tell ya! :P

That's not the case any more. iirc, patch 1.07 corrected that within months of release. Rats no longer are the cause of deaths in your stats.