TEC Loyalist vs TEC Rebel, no reason to use Rebels?

[Insane Scientist]

I've been playing the game a long time and I feel that I've learned all the faction playstyles and advantages reasonably well by now and mostly figured out which sub-factions I prefer. While experimenting with all the different factions though I can't help but feel that TEC Rebels have no advantages over their Loyalist counterpart and I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what TEC Rebels have to offer that Loyalists don't? Is there something I'm missing? I've outlined my reasons for my thinking below.

The reason I feel that Loyalists are simply superior is that I think the Rebels have very little going for them if the map doesn't have pirates and the online meta is to have pirates inactive. TEC Rebels exclusive early game research have pillaged war chest and savage thrill. Pillaged War Chest will easily have some Krosovs pay for themselves while denting enemy eco if you leave them on standby at a pirate base and then mix them in with a raid, but without pirates, I feel these two researches are only useful if you are already winning on the offensive.

The only other Rebel exclusive research is extra max damage upgrades which don't come in until very late in the late game, again if you have the liberty to research these you are probably already winning, I've never found Liberated Resistance or Extreme Xenophobia particularly useful. The only real advantage I think Rebels have is their Titan which doesn't come in until early-mid game at earliest and requires a lot of investment. The TEC factions main advantage is to win through attrition and I feel like the Loyalists cheap and early access to multiple Novaliths absolutely destroying enemy economies is a far superior advantage, I feel like there is nothing Rebels can do without pirates that Loyalists can also do or do better, still able to play aggressively while having better mid to late game eco, better defences and very early Novalith access and possibility to Novalith spam etc.

[GoaFan77]

TEC Rebels get better weapon damage techs and a better titan. Also the TEC Loyalists do not have much going for them early game either.

That said, the Truce Amongst Rogues nerf that caused it to only work on pirates and not neutral militia really hurt them. A TEC Rebel player used to be able to rush that an colonize rapidly, which was a very unique strategy. It was probably a good change, but I wouldn't be opposed to some minor buffs to them as compensation.

[chaosbringer42]

Personally I dislike the rebels, because you have to play hyper aggressive to have them be useful (as well as if pirates arent in the game you lose a great bonus). However they do a nice bit more damage than loyalists, and have a better early Titan (I think level 5+ the loyalist Titan is better, but thats my personal thoughts). Loyalists can have more defenses and damage enemy economies a bit (novas are ok, but they dont hurt economies THAT much, and if you try to rush them you can easily end up crushed by a nice sized fleet because they are still expensive as hell).

Rebels are just a far more aggressive choice, while loyalists are much more defensive oriented.

And yes Goa, Truce Amongst Rogues getting nerfed was a nasty hit to rebel players, but god that skill was overpowered as all hell, way too early in the tech tree for a small research amount for a MASSIVE gain.

[Gilgamesh]

Rebel's titan has incredible fire power, Loyalist titan is more like a block of iron with passive features.

[chaosbringer42]

Originally posted by Cyka Bot:

Rebel's titan has incredible fire power, Loyalist titan is more like a block of iron with passive features.

Passive? It has an active repair ability that can out repair half a fleets worth of damage (including an enemy titan), an active attack ability that knocks out all enemy ability use while doing damage (this ability does damage to everything in its range, so if they have carriers you can use this to speed level your titan), an active fleet shield ability (% damage reduction), and an ultimate that literally doubles your fleets fire rate while halving the enemies fire rate. A high level loyalist Titan (if it can keep from getting energy drained) is god mode.

Rebel Titans do alot of damage from low level to high level...thats really it.

[Keviin Sorbo]

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Originally posted by Cyka Bot:

Rebel's titan has incredible fire power, Loyalist titan is more like a block of iron with passive features.

Passive? It has an active repair ability that can out repair half a fleets worth of damage (including an enemy titan), an active attack ability that knocks out all enemy ability use while doing damage (this ability does damage to everything in its range, so if they have carriers you can use this to speed level your titan), an active fleet shield ability (% damage reduction), and an ultimate that literally doubles your fleets fire rate while halving the enemies fire rate. A high level loyalist Titan (if it can keep from getting energy drained) is god mode.

Rebel Titans do alot of damage from low level to high level...thats really it.

tec rebel is better,for loyalist the passive heal doesnt mean much outside your own gravity well, and the damage per second it does is meh , the shielld group is decent, with an antimatter counter that titan is useless, just there..tec rebel sheer raw power, doesnt need antimatter..but if you do use its abilities lol jesus christ at level 3 it obliterates whole fleets of long range frigates and light frigates both xombined abilities of shotgun and grenande ..at level 6..it reks heavy cruisers and carriers with all 3 abilities working together..ofc if you compstomp and starbase and wait for ai to suicide on sb then tec loy is ideal for that scenario..but sheer firepower and abilities..tec rebel leads the way.

[annaliseh]

Truce among Rogues still works for TEC REBEL after the patch. It is one of the first items to research in my game to do list. Now you only need the one to have a TAR with the actual pirates.

The Rebel factions are another story. Each race has their own.

I generally build a TITAN within the period it takes me to colonize 5 to 6 planets. It then becomes my super-scout.

[WHIPperSNAPper]

One of the problems with Truce Among Rogues is that the pirates become friendly and then you cannot feed the pirates at the Pirate Base to your Titan.

[annaliseh]

Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper:

One of the problems with Truce Among Rogues is that the pirates become friendly and then you cannot feed the pirates at the Pirate Base to your Titan.

Yeah but the Pirates will clean out a couple of systems for you - as long as they are not TEC REBEL players.

[Ceejay]

Originally posted by John Matrix:

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Passive? It has an active repair ability that can out repair half a fleets worth of damage (including an enemy titan), an active attack ability that knocks out all enemy ability use while doing damage (this ability does damage to everything in its range, so if they have carriers you can use this to speed level your titan), an active fleet shield ability (% damage reduction), and an ultimate that literally doubles your fleets fire rate while halving the enemies fire rate. A high level loyalist Titan (if it can keep from getting energy drained) is god mode.

Rebel Titans do alot of damage from low level to high level...thats really it.

tec rebel is better,for loyalist the passive heal doesnt mean much outside your own gravity well, and the damage per second it does is meh , the shielld group is decent, with an antimatter counter that titan is useless, just there..tec rebel sheer raw power, doesnt need antimatter..but if you do use its abilities lol jesus christ at level 3 it obliterates whole fleets of long range frigates and light frigates both xombined abilities of shotgun and grenande ..at level 6..it reks heavy cruisers and carriers with all 3 abilities working together..ofc if you compstomp and starbase and wait for ai to suicide on sb then tec loy is ideal for that scenario..but sheer firepower and abilities..tec rebel leads the way.

Totally agree, the rebel titan is easily the most powerfully offensive titan in the game, 1on1 will kill any other titan easily and its good against enemy fleets. however it has basically no fleet support abilities. Though the eradicator comes a close 2nd, the fact it can only lock 2 of its main weapons on an enemy titan means its going to need a lot of help if another one turns up.

[jim]

I see almost all think rebels Ragnarov is better than Loyalist Ankylon. I saw a interresting fight between 2 computer players. It was a lv.8 Ankylon alone against lv. 6 Ragnarov and lv,4 Mazra Dreadnot. Strangely Ankylon won clearly with about 30 percent healh left. So the choises you nake upgrading is more importent than a super canon. Dont know what upgrades they had but Ankylon beat them both clearly. Just typed as a info

[jim]

forgot to mention that it was in nutural space for both titans

[chaosbringer42]

Originally posted by aarmojim:

I see almost all think rebels Ragnarov is better than Loyalist Ankylon. I saw a interresting fight between 2 computer players. It was a lv.8 Ankylon alone against lv. 6 Ragnarov and lv,4 Mazra Dreadnot. Strangely Ankylon won clearly with about 30 percent healh left. So the choises you nake upgrading is more importent than a super canon. Dont know what upgrades they had but Ankylon beat them both clearly. Just typed as a info

The loyalist one has a self heal ability that outheals most fleets (fleet, not just a ship or two) damage, and another ability that blocks enemy abilities in a large range while doing minor damage (plus a damage reduction ability, and a super buff/debuff at level 6). As long as there isnt something siphoning its anti-matter, the loyalist titan far surpasses the rebel one. The reason most people think rebels is better is it can do alot more damage, and to pvp players damage is king, since its pretty easy to keep your titan alive.

[jim]

TEC Rebels get better weapon damage techs and a better titan. Also the TEC Loyalists do not have much going for them early game either.
Well you manage with a swarm shirken corvette and some cap. ships. Atleast against computer players. Never played again human......shirken corvette can be researched after first mil. research station and very cheap and effectiv too. I mostly play with doble fleet and capital supply...but dont think its needed

[Duneman]

Online play is a separate thing, since people usually crank the speed settings to max and disable pirates. Corvette swarms can also be microed to swarm the Titan from different sides, which is doubly effective against the Titan as it needs to face a target to use its offensive abilities.

Conceptually though, after gaining a few levels the TEC Rebel Titan can eliminate entire fleets with an Explosive Shot or two. The Rebels can also raise instant armies through their Broadcast Centers when Pirates are active, which will then pillage credits from enemy gravity wells. So once they get an offensive advantage going it's easier to snowball that effect.

[Keviin Sorbo]

Originally posted by Duneman:

Online play is a separate thing, since people usually crank the speed settings to max and disable pirates. Corvette swarms can also be microed to swarm the Titan from different sides, which is doubly effective against the Titan as it needs to face a target to use its offensive abilities.

Conceptually though, after gaining a few levels the TEC Rebel Titan can eliminate entire fleets with an Explosive Shot or two. The Rebels can also raise instant armies through their Broadcast Centers when Pirates are active, which will then pillage credits from enemy gravity wells. So once they get an offensive advantage going it's easier to snowball that effect.

even if pirates are not active, broadcast centers still work for rebels