Celtic Paganism

[CelticPagan]

If you start play as I do during the Old Gods period, I am astounded that there is no formalization of Celtic Paganism for places like Ireland. Yes the Latin Church had made inroads there, but many still practiced the Irish form of Celtic Paganism, and many also practiced what was called Celtic Christianity where the people had both a Pagan Priest and a Catholic Priest proside over the same events. So why can't an Irish noble be a Pagan and have an option of restoring Celtic Paganism?

Most holy sites in Ireland were formerly Pagan holy sites, and many of the saints were just transformed Pagan Deities. Rome would not start a crackdown on the pagan elements until around 1000 CE when the Vatican told Irish Priests to stop working alongside Pagan ones. So from a purely historical point of view, this would be very accurate.

So could Paradox please update this to better reflect the historical accuracy?

[jamie]

fair as that hapening is zero cause of pagan and Christianity are way to differnt wont be able to have both put together theres are hard coded and can't be changed

[Segovax]

Christianity had been around in Ireland for over 300 years before the Old Gods start point. It was fairy well established by 867. I don't think there was any real pagan majority left by that time.

[CelticPagan]

As an Historian, I can say it depends where you look in Ireland. The far West and North-West of Ireland had a great many hold outs, and while the majority were Christian, many just gave lip service to the new faith, which was why until around 1000 CE Christain Priests often allowed their flocks to practice both as long as they showed up to Church on Sunday. The Papacy finally had had enough and tried to stamp it out, but it simply moved underground after the Eleventh Century. The excellent book, The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries explains much of this in detail and how worship of the Celtic deities eventually resulted in new Catholic Saints and a beliefe in fairies who had once been Celtic Deities, now reduced to supposedly fallen angels who weren't bad enough for Hell, but not good enough to get back in Heaven. A second book that is a fine read is How the Irish Saved Civilization.

In England, Cornwal held out until 909 before even accepting Easter under Bishop Aedwulf of Crediton, so it was not simply in Ireland. Celtic Christian full aknowledgemt of Easter and other Christian Doctrins didn't occur until the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215.

BTW, I wasn't looking for a Christina-Pagan religion, just a true Celtic Pagan one, fleshed out as well as the other Pagan religions are in this game.

Speaking from personal experience, parts of my family still practiced it well into the Twentieth Century, with my Great Aunt being an openly practicing member until her death in the late 1950's. I am the first in the family to ditch the Christian part, some thirty-one years ago. So I speak from both a family history and as a historian (undergratuate and graduate studies at Adelphi University, concentration in Medieval Studies).

[ShadoWwolF]

the mod CK2+ adds in celtic paganism if i remember correctly. just search it and download it if you want to be a celtic pagan

[Segovax]

While that's an interesting read available for free thanks to Project Gutenberg, those beliefs were not widely practiced enough during the 9th century and onwards to merit anything like you're describing. They are interesting and important in the cultural sense but they did not have the kind of influence at the time that Catholocism did.

Christianity spent a lot of effort and blood trying to wipe out a lot of non-christian cultural traditions. Continental Germanic Paganism, similar to Norse myths that we have in game, is a good example - by the time the 9th century came by it just wasn't as well known or practiced as the monotheistic religious monopoly of christianity.

I think it would be fun to have it in game but I can't see it as any more important than things like that, or say the Welsh mythologies, which I am fairly sure we have more material available and much closer to the times contemporary with the practices.

[Mr Shelley]

I think it is highly naive to think that saints like Saint Patrick replaced "Celtic" deities. Sure, maybe within the folklore and popular perception, but saints were never intended by the Catholic Church to replace them or not.

[Von Kronenbourg]

Paradoxx can't stack their games with all the minor religions/sects and spiritual congregations.

[News1982]

Celtic Paganism was already gone by then time Old Gods period begins. The Celtic peoples were already Catholic for hundreds of years by then

[28 Beers Later]

also even if that would be true (wich i highly doubt, seeing your nick you might have a biassed opinion about that and some fireproof sources would be lovely should i be wrong) lets look at a gameplay perspective, surely all the irish holy sites would be pretty close to each other wich would make reformation a joke (or one could place some in the frankish kingdoms, but then one could also just play a fantasy mod)

[Tamamo-no-Bae]

Celtic Paganism is available in rulerdesigner as the religion called "Pagan"
It even has the Triskelion symbol.

[Langkard]

Originally posted by Gurluas R.E.G:

Celtic Paganism is available in rulerdesigner as the religion called "Pagan"
It even has the Triskelion symbol.

I suspect it was one of those things that they never got around to finishing.

For the ambitious, it is possible to mod Celtic Paganism into the game, everything from complete redesign in the religions to something as simple as adding traits (similar to the religious branch traits, like with the Buddhist and Hindu religions in the recent expansion) and titles and similar. But, as ShadoWwolF already pointed out, it is already done for you in the CK2+ overhaul mod.

[ShadoWwolF]

Originally posted by Langkard:

Originally posted by Gurluas R.E.G:

Celtic Paganism is available in rulerdesigner as the religion called "Pagan"
It even has the Triskelion symbol.

I suspect it was one of those things that they never got around to finishing.

For the ambitious, it is possible to mod Celtic Paganism into the game, everything from complete redesign in the religions to something as simple as adding traits (similar to the religious branch traits, like with the Buddhist and Hindu religions in the recent expansion) and titles and similar. But, as ShadoWwolF already pointed out, it is already done for you in the CK2+ overhaul mod.

actually that "pagan" religion in game is just the generic pagan religion that all pagans had before the "old gods" expansion. it isnt meant to be celtic pagan or any pagan religion in particular. its the left over generic pagan religion that isnt used anymore since old gods actually separated it into different pagan religions

[Miath]

If it makes you feel better, as a Hellenist, I'm highly annoyed that the Pontifex Maximus of the Temple isn't an extant office in CKII despite the office which hosts it (the Emperor of Rome) being extant. So I understand the frustration here, beyond that it'd be rather nice to see Celtic Paganism proper instead of bloody Vikings overrunning the island.

[Tamamo-no-Bae]

The "Generic Pagan" is still being used in the history files for Pagan religions not in the game.
This includes both Celtic Paganism, Pre-Islam Arabic, Pre-Christian Ethiophia Satanism, etc.

Therefore, it is valid as Celtic Paganism.

[Hat8]

Even adding West African Paganism doesn't add much. Celtic paganism is basically dead at this point.