Stupid Infamy

[cornelius]

Thank you Paradox. You have ruined my over one hundred hours game (more than six centuries). Applied to CK II, infamy is one of the most stupid rules I have ever seen: Pope and Califa together against Sacred Empire. RIDICULOUS!!! Worse update ever

[Dr.Calm]

i really hope they remove/nerf it to oblivion so its practically nonexistant its really annoying

[Super Mano]

I agree. Paradox has already announced that infamy and shattered retreat will be fixed... I hope sooner than later because currently the game is unplayable...

[Neshamah]

Originally posted by Super Mano:

I agree. Paradox has already announced that infamy and shattered retreat will be fixed... I hope sooner than later because currently the game is unplayable...

I hate the shattered retreat. No question, they need to change it.

The infamy, though, I'm still undecided. They wanted to make the mid to late game more challenging by making management of large kindoms and empires more difficult. You can still create your 'big blobs of <whatever color>', it just takes more effort. You can't bliztkrieg across the map anymore without making people angry (or terrified). Expansion now takes much more finesse.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=623179066

Like I said, the verdict is still out on infamy. I need to see how it plays out in the next hundred years or so.

Managing vassals is still pretty much the same. They are all greedy dolts who want what they want RIGHT NOW. But, all of them will respond to money, schmoozing, assassination, you know, the usual stuff.

Don't give up on the game just yet. It's still quite playable.

[Big Tasty]

The infamy is quite bonkers and at the time makes no sense.

Just yesterday I was enjoying my first playthrough of the Byzantine Empire, mind you I am new to this game. So the civil war to reduce the crown authority happened and for some reason everyone who was the part of the rebelion became independent. Naturally, I vasalized them back peacefully, but hold on to that freaking phone and don't drop it because doing that netted me 98 point something infamy. Like why, they are my de jure vassals, minus the duke of Mallorca who I couldn't vassalize back.

But the worst part is seeing the coalition spearheaded by Pope which consists of Zikri Ummayads, Sunni everyone else, Catholics, one Walendesian ruler, Slavs and Tengri pagans. It makes no sense whatsoever, the coalition spans from Atlantic Ocean to the Mongolia.

[Neshamah]

Yes. Vassalization of territory does increase infamy. You just have to go about it more slowly than before. It isn't impossible.

When I took Brittany in my current game (above) my infamy went up above 25 points. The Pope immediately formed a coalition against my expansion. But, by making Mecklenburg independent (-20 infamy). That settled things down considerably and the coalition disbanded.

Like I said, expansion is quite a bit slower than before. And, I am still unsure about the coalition mechanics, but I don't think that the game is unplayable (but that is just my opinion).

[Big Tasty]

I agree, it is not uplayable. However, I think it's just too slow now, but that's my 2 cents.

[cornelius]

Originally posted by Neshamah:

Originally posted by Super Mano:

I agree. Paradox has already announced that infamy and shattered retreat will be fixed... I hope sooner than later because currently the game is unplayable...

I hate the shattered retreat. No question, they need to change it.

The infamy, though, I'm still undecided. They wanted to make the mid to late game more challenging by making management of large kindoms and empires more difficult. You can still create your 'big blobs of <whatever color>', it just takes more effort. You can't bliztkrieg across the map anymore without making people angry (or terrified). Expansion now takes much more finesse.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=623179066

Like I said, the verdict is still out on infamy. I need to see how it plays out in the next hundred years or so.

Managing vassals is still pretty much the same. They are all greedy dolts who want what they want RIGHT NOW. But, all of them will respond to money, schmoozing, assassination, you know, the usual stuff.

Don't give up on the game just yet. It's still quite playable.

I recognize that I get swept in angry... It´s still a great game, but just in short games and little kingdoms. Otherwise is unplayable by now. I agree with difficulting expansion, but Paradox must refine the whole idea, and of course take care of historical inconsistency.

[Neshamah]

In my game I have 34 vassals. How do you define a small kingdom ?

I started this game in 769 as the Earl (count) of Sussex, then Duke of Kent, then King of France, and now Emperor. I'm playing on Very Hard, Ironman (not boasting, this is just for informational purposes).

As I said, it is still playable. I know that they are 'tweaking' things at Paradox, so it will probably get easier when they issue the next patch.

[Kayeka]

Well, it definitely screwed up my mission of reconquest of the Roman Empire. But then it saved my behind during my Persia campaign. Basic idea is fine, but some tweaking would be welcome.

[cornelius]

Everything is playable from a certain point of view, but what I mean is that it seems a different (worse) game for me. The new rules noticeably change the playing experience, and I really prefer the older ones, that´s all. Everything would be OK for me if infamy and shattered retreat were optional rules. Not a question of difficult but of fun and gaming.

[Canavet]

Originally posted by Nara:

I agree, it is not uplayable. However, I think it's just too slow now, but that's my 2 cents.

I found the game slow enough before. I always ran the game on max speed. But personally I think this has gotten stupid.

Now as the game sits... I can upset my vassels just as easy as before but I can not appease as easy. The opinion boost that you get for honorary awards is now cut in half and the boost on monatary gifts isn't much better.

I am currently replaying the count of Rossello and the difference is incredible. The first time I started out with a desmne size of 2 and this time it's one. And before anyone says it... Yes my character is married.

So now I get an oversized desmne peanlty if I take over another county. And how am I suppose to deal with that but ride it out or give it away. If I give it away then I am back to square one. This patch really sucks.

[cornelius]

This is my game, anyway.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498015283478016348/912251B379C417880B148A7B88FAF015FD1234F3/

I was trying to restore the Roman Empire too (In the beginning I was a humble Count from Leon, Spain), but it seems impossible for the moment

[Neshamah]

Originally posted by cornelius:

This is my game, anyway.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498015283478016348/912251B379C417880B148A7B88FAF015FD1234F3/

I was trying to restore the Roman Empire too (In the beginning I was a humble Count from Leon, Spain), but it seems impossible for the moment

It looks like you've done quite well. You definitely made yourself one GIANT white blob.

Honestly, I am sorry that some elements of the new DLC seem rather 'clunky' right now. You aren't the only person who is upset by some of the changes. But, I'm optimistic that they'll get the 'bugs' worked out very soon.

Happy Gaming.

[cornelius]

Originally posted by Neshamah:

Originally posted by cornelius:

This is my game, anyway.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498015283478016348/912251B379C417880B148A7B88FAF015FD1234F3/

I was trying to restore the Roman Empire too (In the beginning I was a humble Count from Leon, Spain), but it seems impossible for the moment

It looks like you've done quite well. You definitely made yourself one GIANT white blob.

Honestly, I am sorry that some elements of the new DLC seem rather 'clunky' right now. You aren't the only person who is upset by some of the changes. But, I'm optimistic that they'll get the 'bugs' worked out very soon.

Happy Gaming.

Yeah, I hope they will fix it, too. Meanwhile I will focus in "little" achievements; CK2 is still my favourite! Thanks and happy gaming for you too.

[Kayeka]

The way I see it, the best way to fix infamy would be to put more limitations on what does and what doesn't raises infamy, instead of simply saying "expansion raises infamy, period". I say that they should look at the Casus Belli used instead, with the line being drawn at "would this be a cause for worry for the Horse Lords in Bumbuck Nowhere?"

For example, I don't think that wars for De Jure claims should raise infamy. De Jure claims are a perfectly legit reason for someone to wage war because you are actually taking back stuff that was yours to begin with, and people not currently in possesion of your property should have no reason to worry.

Similarly, pushing claims of your vassals/dynasty members shouldn't be a problem. Claims to titles are an internal problem in which you just so happen to have a stake, so there is no reason the Horse Lords of Bumbuck Nowhere should believe that they could be next.

Now, Holy Wars on the other hand. I mean, if the land you are conquering is home to a majority of members of your religion group, then it's totally legit for you to go in and liberate them from their infidel overlords. But we all know that this usually isn't the case and you're simply using religion as an excuse for a war of expansion. I can totally see rulers of your own religion wondering when you'll decide they are heretics as well, not to mention the actual infidels.

Likewise, tribal conquests/invasions. You are essentially saying "I got more dudes than you do, so your stuff is now my stuff", and that is a legit reason for everyone around you to be worried about what will happen when you got more dudes than them as well.

Roman Reconquest is a bit more iffy, though. I mean, technically you are pressing a De Jure claim, except that said claim is several hundreds of years out of date and the world has moved on. I want to say that the infamy gain should at last be lower than that of other conquests, but that might just be my inner Rome fanboy speaking.

Basically, just add a bit of nuance to it.