Forming the Empire of Rus

[thatrandomtoast]

I've looked all over for a guide for rurik 867 but the two good ones, an AAR on paradox forums, and a steam guide from back in 2018, are both outdated. At least, from what I can tell, the person playing the AAR declares war on polotsky, the a realm bordering him, using a subjugation casus belli. However, I cannot use the subjugation casus belli despite not using it before, and choosing to the "become king of novgrod" ambition before or after i declare war does not change anything. How am I supposed to form the empire of rus, if I can't go county by county? What do I do?

[Goose]

Uh you should play as novgorod, convert to germanic, and then go county by county, also convert to russian

[JD]

Start in Kiev in 867 A.D.
Convert to Russian culture.
Become King of Kiev and ask Byzantine Emperor for a mass conversion.
Expand through holy wars.

[bri]

Did you change religion or inheritance laws? I just loaded an 867 start and subjugation was available against every tribal I checked, no matter which religion or location. You also can just eat up neighboring pagan provinces one at a time as long as they are different religion.

[thatrandomtoast]

No, I didn't change religon or inheritance, this was around 5 minutes into the game. I have done around 8 Rurik games, each lasting like 2 minutes before I lose a war or am not able to subjugate people, especially the larger empires. Also, how do people go do and paint the map if they have to go county by county?

[Count Von Count]

Originally posted by thatrandomtoast:

Also, how do people go do and paint the map if they have to go county by county?

They find people with claims to big areas (preferably kingdoms, but always of a lower rank than your own highest title), land them (as a baron will suffice), then press their claim. This means they stay as your vassal, and your ‘country’ now encompasses their land too

[bri]

They also use holy wars/invasions, crusades, etc. Also, keep in mind that the game runs close to 600 years from the Old Gods start date, you have a lot of time to get your map painting groove on.

[CrUsHeR]

I never actually formed Rus myself because i either got bored or did some mistakes in the process (ironman), but i can give you some clear instructions how to get started.

To my knowledge it is best to go full "North Korea" mode where you simply try to have no vassals as long as possible, and use all the potential of retinues.
Retinues for tribals are capped by total number of owned holdings and technology, and most important the earthen hillforts. Each of them adds +100 to the cap, multiplied by points in military organization. So you can quickly reach 5-10k worth of light foot troops, which can easily overwhelm most realms in the region before they can mobilize their levies.
Retinues also quickly replenish, and you can have them start marching halfway across a border before declaring war. You may also want to pillage any bordering counties before declaring war.

So basically you're going to play this similar to a nomad horde for some time.
I'd also highly recommend to disable defensive pacts for this campaign.



1. Ambition: Become King of Novgorod


2. Military Focus and join Wolf Warriors


3. Any NPC with Learning 20+ as court physician
+ Search for smith: armor, weapon (50g each)
+ Spymaster with 15-20+ intrigue, steal tech in Constantinople
+ Raise a Runestone
+ Worship Ancestors + Hold Great Blot (once you have at least 4 adult infidel prisoners)
+ Get 3 concubines, if possible russian


4. Do NOT convert to Slavic or Russian while playing as Rurik, you NEED the germanic conquest CBs against the other religions there. Remaining Norse will allow you to raid even after becoming Orthodox later on. Your son is already Russian and you should tutor all further sons as Russians as well.
Keeping this combo will also prevent any Norse from landing prepared invasions against you (which may happen at any point once you are large enough).


5. Build an Earthen Hillfort lvl1 in every province you own. Invest prestige into the cheapest retinue until you have several thousand, afterwards buy the three mixed retinues in equal stacks.


6. IIRC you can also plot to revoke your only vassal's titles, ideally after obtaining the Title Revocation law. So you can plot, then arrest and revoke his other titles too - he won't join your wars against russian/slavic rulers anyways.
Do this by opening the intrigue tab, under My Plots there should be two options where he holds counties but doesn't have the required duchy. You need 1 landed conspirator (the godi in your temple) and success chance of 80%+.


7. Plan strategy by figuring out the exact territories for both Kingdom of Novgorod and Empire of Rus: Click on any of the icons on the province card, enable "De Jure" view and follow the hierarchy (this will paint borders in the map).
Novgorod -> Rus have priority, but you can also grab anything nearby just to boost your retinues.


8. Start by conquest of Ingria, and any targets of opportunity.
Truce from pagan conquest CB only lasts 5 years, so you'll be constantly raiding and then conquering some neighbor.
Generally you would pick targets with the most holding slots first, but instead you should try to find paths which allow to instantly conquer county after county from different rulers.
Keep building those earth hillforts in every province you conquer.


9. Create Kingdom of Novgorod ASAP, this basically improves everything. More tech, prestige, commanders, etc.


10. Periodically check your technology, invest military points into military organization only, also lvl 1 improved castles (for stone hillfort) and lvl 2 legalism (religious title revocation).


11. There will be a point where you have "enough retinues"; you can boost these up to 20k or more when holding entire kingdoms yourself, but once you have a total of 10k including mainly the mixed troop types, you need to start planning how to give out all excess counties and switch to a regular playstyle.

Rurik will die sooner or later, by that point you need to have your realm ordered with dukes and counts. I would recommend to grant these titles only to lowborns who have no claims and are not heir to anything. Spamming "invite noble" is an option for this (costs only a few gold as tribal).
Alternatively, you could also let gavelkind sort this out with Rurik's death. Switching to regular gavelkind might be required for this, so you don't lose kingdom titles outside of Novgorod.


While you still have no vassals and are popular among your courtiers and councillors, you should also be able to increase Tribal Organization on cooldown. Buy favors for council support if necessary.
This will be required on at least medium (better max) once you request the mass conversion later on.

Due to the mass conversion, you also don't have to think about the religion or culture of anyone. Your court and all counties will be converted, with max tribal organization also all vassals - if you have any at that point.

When to do the mass conversion is up to you. With a huge retinue, you are completely independent of anything. So you can also simultaneously adopt feudalism.
If you still hold all your territory on your own, your entire realm will upgrade to feudal as well. Which won't be the case if you handed out territories or subjugated anyone.

Keep in mind that after becoming Orthodox, you lose the pagan conquest and subjugation CBs. Even worse, if Rurik becomes Russian or his son inherits, you can no longer raid.
You gain Holy Wars, however these may end with the target ruler converting to your religion, which removes them as a valid target besides de jure wars.

[CrUsHeR]

BTW - since i recommended joining the Wolf Warriors - never accept duel missions with rivals, also avoid duels with anyone having high intrigue or the deceitful trait. Accept craven trait if necessary. In battlefield duels you may drop your weapon and run, so make sure you always have one equipped.

Most important thing is that Rurik lives as long as possible, to fulfil the tasks described above. Boons from Wolf Warriors and potential bloodline from that are secondary. They'll kick you out anyways after you convert to christian.

To extend his lifespan, after doing some initial conquest and getting commander traits, you can switch to hunting focus until you get the dog pet (+1 health). Then switch to theology- or family focus. With theology don't accept options that make you zealous, this may prevent the mass conversion.



Bonus: Award honorary titles, councillor jobs and spare artifacts to heirs (sons and grandsons). The tribal retinue costs huge amounts of prestige upkeep, so you want them to start their reign with a couple thousand prestige in stock. Most councillor jobs are skill-irrelevant while you have no vassals or levy to deal with.

[Burn]

Were you talking about my outdated Rurik Steam guide? Anyways, maybe while waiting for CK3 I should update my Rurik guide or just create a new one.

In regards what you can do with Rurik at the start. It's possible to form the Kingdom of Novgorod without any wars/deaths. But forming that Kingdom is never my priority. With Rurik I always aim to form the Kingdom of Ruthenia (Kiev as capital).

From the start Dyr the Stranger (Kiev) will constantly wage wars to expand his territory. Just support his wars with your armies and gold (you both are Norse). If you can't or won't join his wars then just raid his enemies so they are weak for him.

Once he has enough lands to form Ruthenia, declare your one-time subjugation war on him. By that time he won't have a big army anymore and won't have enough gold to support a big war against Novgorod. The neighboring Russian High Chiefs are easy pickings for him. Just pray that he won't attack those Nomadic neighbors.

Oh, while waiting for Dyr to get all the territories for Ruthenia, you can form the Kingdom of Novgorod if you want. There's no need to use armies for that. First you change your religion to Suomenusko (right click on Novgorod tribe shield and select "secretly change religion to Suomenusko" then immediately openly adopt the religion), revoke title High Chiefdom of Veps (you can only revoke if you have the same religion - that's why you changed your religion), now you can form the Kingdom of Novgorod. After you create the Kingdom title switch your religion to Slavic (you can use prestige for that) and change culture to Russian. Now the High Chief of Pskov will agree to be vassalized by you. There you go, you got all three High Chiefdoms (Novgorod, Veps and Pskov) and the Kingdom of Novgorod with no blood spilled.