Playing as a vassal!

[Marcus]

I have over 1500 hours playtime on the clock and have always been the top liege i.e. King or Emperor! I have never played as a vassal and would like to hear from other players what is a nice count or duke vassal to start off as?
Thanks.

[Rowley]

I'm curious about what players that frequently play like this think--for other games (Romance of the Three Kingdoms comes to mind) I don't mind it and think it can be pretty fun--though with the way CK2 handles power divisions and titles, it just doesn't 'click' for me as easily just because of that mechanic.

Even starting as a Count in Francia or the Byzantines, sometimes...you just happen to get elected Emperor, because what...

[Charlememe]

My first vassal game that I can remember was as the last landed male Karling in 1066, the Count of Vermandois, with the goal of restoring the empire of your ancestor Charlemagne. Was so fun I've played that start 3 or 4 times now. If you want more of a challenge, a few years later you can play as his daughter.

[Boskov]

Any good-sized demense with plenty of holdings to build really. There's lots to choose from that fit this description in France, and the game's model of feudalism is mostly based on the French model anyway so if you're playing a vassal it just fits well.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Flanders, Burgundy, Upper Burgundy, and Provence. I've played vassal games from all of those. Becoming a mega-duke of Burgundy and Upper Burgundy is particularly fun.

The problem with playing as a vassal is that usually it feels inevitable that you grow out of it. Sometimes situations in the game pretty much force you to. Could be a tyrannical liege or simply winning an election you don't want. Plus, unmodded, even with Conclave, it doesn't feel as engaging as it could be imo. Hooni's Rebels and Warmongers was a great mod that added a lot of depth and reward to playing a vassal but it's out of date unfortunately.

[Quicksilver]

Doge Leon of Amalfi. Charlemagne start date, duke level republic vassal of the byzantine empire. The trade post war decs make it quite a fun one, and the upper liege is an empire so the court is nice and large for intrigue-play options.

[drake_hound]

I loved playing a vassal, sadly the game pushes you out of the vassal spot really quick.

Cause the AI sees you as a threat. even if you are the most loyal vassal ever.
Cause you simply build up faster then the AI.

Sometimes I miss the very old AI that I learned to love CK2 where the vassals are loyal. and the rulers are just.
Cause people complained positve opnions are too postive. I understand that.
But sometimes I simply miss it :P having vassals/protectorate like in stellaris coming to your AID
When you didn´t even call upon them.

[Zednaught]

Never played as a vassal? You're missing out.

I love doing that, especially since you may work for your liege for a generation or two, all the while plotting his downfall. It gives that feeling of conniving and cunning that is CK2 at its best, and you don't get that as much as a king or an emperor.

Every game I play I start as either someone else's count or duke and make it my mission to form my own empire, though nowadays I'd probably restart after reaching that point, as it's too easy once you wear an imperial tiara.

It usually doesn't really matter if you start off as a count or a duke, though obviously a duke lets you set in motion your plans to seize the throne a little sooner. I think it would matter a bit because depending on the realm laws in which you start a count might be too limiting.

[hurepoix]

I never played starting as king or emperor. It miss a goal starting like that from my point of view. Starting as count could be annoying sometime, Duke is a good compromise. After that, starting area is just a matter of choice / difficulty you want. For sure Land with sea access usually offer good opportunity to be rich, but you can be interrested by the challenge to start in a desolated poor and archaic land in russia for exemple.

Main annoyance for me starting low in the hierarchy is you have no control on laws.
Spain could be a good land to start and make your own little realm. If making war is not a problem, inverse is also true and you cant really bet on a peace time when you need it.
Try to be a king inside the HRE, typically ethnic minority such as low country or Bohemia can be interresting, but if you want want have a control on low you have to be independant an no more a vassal.
Aside that many variations exist. A slavic lord trying to build the kingdom of Pomerania with double treat to have HRE as neighbour and be the target of holy crusade, is just an exemple.

At the end Playing as vassal dont annoy me, as long as laws are adequate to me. The trap is just to be careful with crusade. Be over active here is a risk to become king to a far away land.

[Popeye]

You never realize just how easy it is for a vassal to completely shatter an empire or a kingdom until you play as one.