How the heck did the AI form the HRE?

[Colonel Martyr]

Like the title says, in this playthrough, the AI suddenly formed the HRE. However, here's the kicker: They didn't hold all the required states needed. They only held Germany. France and Italy were entirely independent of the owner of the HRE. So how did the AI just spontaniously poof from Germany to HRE without the required Kingdoms? I even double checked the creator's held titles and it was only Germany prior to the HRE.

[hurepoix]

AI is allowed to cheat in order to balance lack of AI smartness. Shortly AI condition to build HRE are less hard than for player.
It s not so scandaleous, because you really need to find an exceptional idiot player to be at the same level than AI.

[Colonel Martyr]

I'm just baffled at why it only needs Germany when it said you need Italy, France and something else. I mean, I can get that the AI is too stupid for other stuff, but just one kingdom title? That's a special level of stupid.

[hurepoix]

I have no info for sure about France or Italy, so I avoid to speak about it. On an other hand, HRE is a well know exemple where AI have a ** law passes **.

[The Cure]

Did he have one (any) other kingdom title? From Old God's date on you only need Germany, any other kingdom title and either German or Dutch culture.

If not, I guess it was just the easy AI requirements.

[Colonel Martyr]

Originally posted by The Cure:

Did he have one (any) other kingdom title? From Old God's date on you only need Germany, any other kingdom title and either German or Dutch culture.

If not, I guess it was just the easy AI requirements.

Ohhhhhhh. See, I usually start from the Charlemagne start date. I decided to start from TOG to shake things up a little. I didn't realise the requirements were easier on TOG's start onward.

[The Cure]

There also seems to be a third way to create the HRE. In my current game I started at the Karl bookmark as a custom Castilian character and Pepin the Hunchback formed the HRE. Then, after a hundred years or so it broke up into Middle Francia and Aquitaine. As Emperor of Spain, I have the choice to reform the HRE if I become king of Italy, and that's it. I don't need Germany, France, or any specific culture it seems.

This seems strange since a Spanish monarch wasn't elected Holy Roman Emperor until 1516 in Charles V - making him the only person in history to ever hold two emperor titles. So I'm not sure why a game that ends in 1453 allows for this to happen. And if I did form it, it would only consist of Spain and Italy, no Germany of France, etc. So I'm not sure how that can even be considered a HRE. I guess they want to give a Spanish Habsburg dynasty an early start?

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by The Cure:

Did he have one (any) other kingdom title? From Old God's date on you only need Germany, any other kingdom title and either German or Dutch culture.

If not, I guess it was just the easy AI requirements.

Thats odd, good to know too.

Originally posted by The Cure:

There also seems to be a third way to create the HRE. In my current game I started at the Karl bookmark as a custom Castilian character and Pepin the Hunchback formed the HRE. Then, after a hundred years or so it broke up into Middle Francia and Aquitaine. As Emperor of Spain, I have the choice to reform the HRE if I become king of Italy, and that's it. I don't need Germany, France, or any specific culture it seems.

This seems strange since a Spanish monarch wasn't elected Holy Roman Emperor until 1516 in Charles V - making him the only person in history to ever hold two emperor titles. So I'm not sure why a game that ends in 1453 allows for this to happen. And if I did form it, it would only consist of Spain and Italy, no Germany of France, etc. So I'm not sure how that can even be considered a HRE. I guess they want to give a Spanish Habsburg dynasty an early start?

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

This is even weirder. I want to try it xD (What was the other emperor title?)

[Colonel Martyr]

Originally posted by The Cure:

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

Heh, really? I don't know your username offhand (Unless Cure's not your username there). I don't go there much since they shut down the old forums and use that horrid new software for the forums.

[The Cure]

Originally posted by ImOnlyOneMan:

This is even weirder. I want to try it xD (What was the other emperor title?)

Just the Spanish Empire and the Italian kingdom/Empire is all that is needed according to my decisions tab.

Originally posted by Colonel Martyr:

Originally posted by The Cure:

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

Heh, really? I don't know your username offhand (Unless Cure's not your username there). I don't go there much since they shut down the old forums and use that horrid new software for the forums.

Yeah, I have not been there in a while eaither, think the last time I saw you was the New Vegas era. I was the always cynical Xarnac.

[Colonel Martyr]

Originally posted by The Cure:

Yeah, I have not been there in a while eaither, think the last time I saw you was the New Vegas era. I was the always cynical Xarnac.

You must have been around for a while. I don't clearly remember that name, but it's ringing bells. So you must have been a regular for a while at least if I can vaguely remember it.

[Sieda]

Originally posted by The Cure:

There also seems to be a third way to create the HRE. In my current game I started at the Karl bookmark as a custom Castilian character and Pepin the Hunchback formed the HRE. Then, after a hundred years or so it broke up into Middle Francia and Aquitaine. As Emperor of Spain, I have the choice to reform the HRE if I become king of Italy, and that's it. I don't need Germany, France, or any specific culture it seems.

This seems strange since a Spanish monarch wasn't elected Holy Roman Emperor until 1516 in Charles V - making him the only person in history to ever hold two emperor titles. So I'm not sure why a game that ends in 1453 allows for this to happen. And if I did form it, it would only consist of Spain and Italy, no Germany of France, etc. So I'm not sure how that can even be considered a HRE. I guess they want to give a Spanish Habsburg dynasty an early start?

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

As far as I'm aware, the title "Emperor of Spain" was only recognized locally, and was short lived, predominantly used during the "high" middle ages when the Iberian peninsula was much more open to political contention between various rulers. Charles V himself was King of Castille and Leon, as well as Aragon and Siciliy, (which initally came with some limitiatons, such as "shared" rulership with his mother, as the respective crowns had different traditions of royal authority) but he was only ever "Emperor" of the HRE.

[The Cure]

Originally posted by Sieda:

Originally posted by The Cure:

There also seems to be a third way to create the HRE. In my current game I started at the Karl bookmark as a custom Castilian character and Pepin the Hunchback formed the HRE. Then, after a hundred years or so it broke up into Middle Francia and Aquitaine. As Emperor of Spain, I have the choice to reform the HRE if I become king of Italy, and that's it. I don't need Germany, France, or any specific culture it seems.

This seems strange since a Spanish monarch wasn't elected Holy Roman Emperor until 1516 in Charles V - making him the only person in history to ever hold two emperor titles. So I'm not sure why a game that ends in 1453 allows for this to happen. And if I did form it, it would only consist of Spain and Italy, no Germany of France, etc. So I'm not sure how that can even be considered a HRE. I guess they want to give a Spanish Habsburg dynasty an early start?

On a side not, I know you from the Beth forums.

As far as I'm aware, the title "Emperor of Spain" was only recognized locally, and was short lived, predominantly used during the "high" middle ages when the Iberian peninsula was much more open to political contention between various rulers. Charles V himself was King of Castille and Leon, as well as Aragon and Siciliy, (which initally came with some limitiatons, such as "shared" rulership with his mother, as the respective crowns had different traditions of royal authority) but he was only ever "Emperor" of the HRE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire

Carlos was Emperor of Spain and the HRE. Since the 11th century certain Leonese and Castilians had styled themselves Emperor of Spain, but Carlos truly was one. By his time Spain, including its vast American territories, was an Empire.

[hurepoix]

Having a colonial empire dont means you have an emperor. Spain crown is a royal one, not an inperial. Sieda is correct If charles V ruled spain and was emperor, he was emperor only for The HRE.

An other exemple. France had a colonial empire, but no emperor,except 1804-1818 and 1852-1870. Last emperor in Francia occidentalis was IIRC Charles the bald, end of the IX th century. Most of the time french colonial empire was ruled by a republic.

[The Cure]

The Spanish empire was controlled by Carlos, the HRE was controlled by Carlos. He was emperor of both.

They didn't call it a Spanish EMPIRE for nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperator_totius_Hispaniae

Pedantry won't change this. Now, since I was right, let's go back to the topic.

[hurepoix]

Your little wiki kink is no more than what Sieda pointed as

As far as I'm aware, the title "Emperor of Spain" was only recognized locally, and was short lived, predominantly used during the "high" middle ages when the Iberian peninsula was much more open to political contention between various rulers.

Spain crown is a royal crown, having a colonial empire dont change anything. An other hint. To rules oversea territory spainh had ... viceroyalty. From royal, not imperial.