How to Control the Jomsvikings?

[Yasha]

It is 1037 and I am the Emperor of the norse feudal Scandanavia Empire, and Fylkir of the reformed Germanic (pagan) church , praise be to Odin and all that. The dynasty has gradually stripped the council of everything but war powers, and s about half the council is packed with loyalists. However, the emperor has almost a dozen key vassals, including three vassal kingdoms beyond his own, so the forms must be observed - tyranny cannot be used.

About fifty years ago, while I was dealing with plagues and revolts, the Jomsvikings appeared in Wolgast (along the south Baltic coast). They are a secondary barony in the province, with their own still-modest castle.

Wolgast was and is in the demesne lands the Jarl of Jylland, who in turn is a vassal of the King of Danmark, who in turn is my vassal. Like his father, due to ambition and ancient hatreds, the Danish kings have a set of apartments reserved in my dungeon for their exclusive use. When a new generation takes over, they regularly rebel, are defeated, and take up residence in my dungeon for the rest of their life.

My question is simple: How can I engineer it so that the Jomsvikings become a group I can call out in a war against non-Germanic peoples, which is just about everyone outside of my empire?

I am not experienced in dealing with holy orders, and value suggestions from those with such experience.

[The Cure]

Give him a county in your land. He should accept.

[Yasha]

Which "Him" are you referring to? The Jomsviking Baron?

[Jet]

you trying to vassalize holy orders? if you give the leader a county, you can then give him a duchy. After doing that you can then vassalize them. Or could you vassalize them by just giving them a barony? its been a while

[Yasha]

Isn't the Jomsvikings, a Holy Order, location based? Wouldn't giving their current leader a nice county somewhere else cause him to happily become a count there, while leaving the Jomsvikings barony (and all those religious troops) to his successor?

[Brother Goobarian]

If their castle is in your country, you should just be able to offer them vassaliztion from the diplomatic options. You don't need to give them any more land. I don't think they even need to be in your demesne, but I'm not positive. After that, you're they only one that can "hire" them from the holy orders tab for a little bit of piety and no gold upkeep.

[Yasha]

@Gebber - shockingly enough, ever though the Jomsvikings are the vassal of a vassal of my vassal, I still have the opportunity to vassalize them. What this will do is unknown - perhaps nothing, since they are already my vassal twice removed? What will happen to the relationship to their existing liege (a Jarl), or to his liege (a Ki'ng)?

@Everyone - I'm still perplexed about many issues here. Being able to vassal and "steal away" vassals of vassals of vassals of me seems really weird, and likely to tie the game logic in knots. Has any one actually "taken away" the Jomsvikings from their vassals, and if so, how did they accomplish it?

[Surimi]

Unless something weird has happened, the Jomsvikings will not be a vassal of the ruler of Wolgast, they simply have an (independent) barony-level holding there. By default, they exist for all norse rulers and can be called on by anyone at a cost of piety and (in offensive wars) regular upkeep of gold.

If you want to vassalize them, they will become almost free to raise, but will not be available to anyone but you. If you personally rule most of the norse lands this is fine, but bear in mind it can be quite detrimental sometimes. It also makes you really, really overpowered, especially for raiding, so you may find the game gets a bit boring.

If you want to go ahead, then check out the leader of the Jomsvikings. If you can ask them to become your vassal, then they aren't yet anyone's vassal. Generally, if you do ask them they will say no. You can check why in the tooltip. If you're Emperor tier, then the main reason will usually be that they aren't your de jure vassals, so you need to make them your de jure vassals.

To do this, you need to give the leader a duchy level title inside de jure Scandinavia (i.e. in the area that appears as blue when you select the empire map), since that's your title (you may need to give them a county as well in order to make them eligable). A county won't cut it. That will make you the de jure liege of the jomsviking leader (since they'll also be the jarl of XXX), and you'll be able to offer them vassalization. At this point, you can revoke the titles like any normal vassal, although obviously you will incur penalties for doing so.

[Jet]

make sure not to expel them if you make a mistake btw. i did it and its been 5 rulers and i still cant hire them. hope one day i can...

[Yasha]

@Deep Hurting - thanks for the clear and detailed explanation. You might consider adding to info to the ckiiwiki about Holy Orders. There is no information there about what you described so clearly.