How to fabricate claim on duchy?

[Ksenagos]

I am count to 4 counties that are de jure counties of a duchy. The duke is a bishop (theocracy) holding only 1 county next to me. I have my chouncilor fabricating claims for over 50 years now (19 diplomacy skill) on my counties in hope of claiming the duchy but nothing comes up. Any ideas?

[Lightsong]

Reset the chancellor every year. If you can remember, you get events to bribe or kill chancellors that are trying to fabricate claims on your land. Same thing happens to the AI. I believe resetting the mission gets around that.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Lightsong:

Reset the chancellor every year.

As far as fabricating claims are concerned, that's pretty much all you can do OP. Fabricating a claim is entirely up to your chancellor, and even with a high diplo score it still takes a bit of luck due to intervening factors.

Alternately, you could try to induce the duke into rebelling against you, which would allow you to imprison him and strip him of his titles (assuming you had that law passed). Since you're already holding four of the counties in that duchy, it really shouldn't be hard to goad that duke into doing something stupid like raising his banners against you.

If you have the Way of Life DLC, the Intrigue ability to spy on others can give you some useful ways to declare him a traitor.

[al_x_ator2411]

If you own the majority of the duchy you should be able to usurp it (unless it works different against theocracies and I don't remember). Otherwise you should fabricate on the bishop's county not yours.

Additionally, if you owned the Jade Dragon DLC you would have extra CBs against the dude.

[Ksenagos]

Just to clarify something, I m supposed to fabricate on my own counties (which are de jure of the duchy I want to get) in order to get the duchy right? Not the county where the duke resides (which is a county outside the de jure duchy, he doesnt own any inside)..

[Ksenagos]

Also I m just a count and he is a duke, I cannot revoke the duchy off him. When I hover the mouse over unsurp the duchy title, it says that I need a strong claim on it.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Ksenagos:

Not the county where the duke resides (which is a county outside the de jure duchy, he doesnt own any inside)..

I'm pretty sure you actually have to fabricate the claim where he resides, since that's the main seat of his power. Since he lives there, it's technically the seat of the duchy even though it's outside the de jure region.

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

If you own the majority of the duchy you should be able to usurp it (unless it works different against theocracies and I don't remember).

Oh absolutely, but you'll still take a penalty hit from your vassals if you attempt to revoke a title from a vassal without a pretext. Inducing the duke into rebelling against you gives you a penalty-free way of revoking the title, since he's a traitor at that point.

Originally posted by Ksenagos:

Also I m just a count and he is a duke, I cannot revoke the duchy off him. When I hover the mouse over unsurp the duchy title, it says that I need a strong claim on it.

Ah I didn't realize you were actually of a lower rank than him. I just assumed you were his overlord, so that changes things. You mentioned you were a count in the OP, so I just missed it. Feel free to disregard everything I've posted about vassals and rebellions, since that obviously doesn't apply here.

Still, your best bet is fabricating a claim on the Dukes remaining county or provoking him into a war. If he's not your vassal or your overlord, you should also be able to press a de jure claim against the duchy title in a war. Either way, if you can get him into your prison, you can strip him of his titles and take them for yourself.

[haidunia]

Originally posted by Ksenagos:

Just to clarify something, I m supposed to fabricate on my own counties (which are de jure of the duchy I want to get) in order to get the duchy right? Not the county where the duke resides (which is a county outside the de jure duchy, he doesnt own any inside)..

No, fabricate on him. Afaik, you can't get a claim on a title that the holder of the county you're fabricating in doesn't have.
Is it the only county he holds? If so, that's perfect for you, and then it won't matter if you have a claim on the county or the duchy. Get the claim, win the war. He will have no land left = can't hold any title. That would make the duchy title available for you to create.

[Ksenagos]

I have claimed his only county 3 times and he keeps getting the nearest one. He owns only 1 county a time and whenever I get it from him, he automatically goes to another one without possesing it before. I suppose it has to do something with theocracy, as he is always appointed by the pope, he never has a spouse or a heir, and when I assassinate him another one takes over by pope with the same titles.

[Varainger]

Check in the intrigue tab if you got a plot to create a claim on the duchy.
You should if you have most of the duchy counties...or at least that's how it used to work.

[Ksenagos]

I have it but is is greyed out. When I check the requirments with the mouse, both of them are green, but its still greyed out.

[Random]

if you have a claim on his county, push your war on him for it. once he is unlanded the duchy title will be destroyed allowing you to then create it.

Alternatively you may be able to plot to fabricate a claim on the duchy as you personally hold counties within the dejure, however this option may be dlc specific, honestly not sure as I own must dlc.

[al_x_ator2411]

Since he is the duke, each time you took his only county away from him, he just ususrped another county from one of his vassal counts (it happens automatichaly). Since he is on his last remaining province then this won't save him anymore.

Like people already said, you don't need a claim on the duchy; a claim on the county is enough*. As soon you take it the duchy title will be destroyed and you can re-create it. And it will still be cheaper than fabricating a claim on it.

*To make it clear one more time (you missed it on my first answer) you should be fabricating on HIS lands and NOT yours! A claim on the duchy can only be gotten by fabricating on the current capital where the duke resides.

[Ksenagos]

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

Since he is the duke, each time you took his only county away from him, he just ususrped another county from one of his vassal counts (it happens automatichaly). Since he is on his last remaining province then this won't save him anymore.

Well after all, that was excactly the case. I kept hunting him until he had no county to AUTOMATICALLY usurp, so eventually it gave me the option to create the duchy title I wanted.
Thanks everyone very much :)

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

If you are a vassal of a king or a duke they can usurp the title for themselves. In all likelihood they'll give you the duchy later on since you own the majority. A king would be more likely to do it as well. I think if a duke does it you'll automatically be granted independence as well. Hence wh's they be more reluctant to do it.

But it'll still be faster than trying to fabircate a claim on it.

But yeah how I generally do it is get all the land, wait for my king to ursurp the duchy then ask for it. They have a -25 attitude value from you they want to get rid of. So they'll likely do it. Also if it's a king with a a Lot of land chances are if he usurps a duchy that would put him over the limit of duchies he's allowed to have anyway.