Stack camal cavalry and horse archers as tribal?

[Closet Deadpooler]

Is there a mod or a fix for the issue where a holding with desert cavalry and the Egyptian camel cavalry building can stack in the same holding? I had desert cavalry in most of my holdings before switching from Mande culture to Egyptian so basically my cultural buildings do nothing since the horse archers overwrite their units. Kinda sucks since I went through all that trouble and have so much time invested in this playthrough.

[OathKeeper81]

We'll need to get some clarity on things. You mention "desert cavalry" and "Egyptian camel cavalry." I can assume "Egyptian camel cavalry" = Egyptian Camel Warrior, the Egyptian cultural retinue. I have no idea what "desert cavalry" is. Unless you're confused about what government type you are, and are actually playing as nomadic and not tribal since there are Camel Cavalry horde troops (though you do use that nomenclature in your discussion title.) You also talk about horse archers, which again strongly suggests you're nomadic government type since neither Egyptian cultural retinues nor West African cultural retinues have horse archers. The issue though, is changing culture as nomadic is typically a very complex process, so I'd be surprised if you changed culture as nomadic.

[Closet Deadpooler]

What I'm talking about is the desert riders building that requires a holding in a desert to build and the Camel Riding Grounds buildable in holdings by some Arabic cultures(Egyptian, Beduin, etc). I can have both in a desert holding, which most of my direct holdings are, but if I build desert riders it means I don't get camel cavalry levies or horse archer levies depending on my build order.

I'm tribal but I already changed culture. I can share screen shots if that would help?

[OathKeeper81]

I started up a 769 Abbasid game to take a look at the buildings and the troop stacking. I see the terrain specific cultural building that you're talking about--"Desert Cavalry" which has a building level of I thru VI. In the CKII Wiki, this is referred to as the Desert Stable building line. This building produces camel cavalry (special troops), light cavalry, and heavy cavalry (at the higher levels.) The Abbasid capital begins with a level II Desert Cavalry building (desert stable), which produces a total of 30 camel cavalry (special troops) and 50 light cavalry troops. Once I had enough gold and the requisite buildings, I built the Camel Riding Ground cultural building. At level I, this cultural building produces 30 camel cavalry (special troops.) I let the clock roll to allow the new levies to fill up. The troops from both buildings stacked just fine.

You keep mentioning horse archers (special troops), but I fail to see how horse archers have any relevance to this discussion unless the county culture for the county you're building in has an associated horse archer culture. If that's the case, you need to spread your culture into those counties.

[Closet Deadpooler]

I've said multiple times this is for tribal. The tribal versions go up to rank IV and give:
Camel Riding Ground: +20 Camel Cavalry per rank
Desert Riders: +12 Light Cavalry/+4 Horse archers per rank

It should be providing camel cavalry(from the level 3 camel riding grounds) and the base 20 horse archers. Only the Horse archers end up in the final levy, and camel cavalry isn't raised with the levy so its not just a display bug. Both buildings work as intended separately.

[Closet Deadpooler]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1844791644089314188/B22413B77B97A985FD9F82D75129CAE2F2897F50/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[OathKeeper81]

OK, I booted up the tribal Arabic duke of Nefoud. Apparently the tribal version of the Desert Cavalry building is called Desert Riders. Thank you for clarifying that. That is an odd implementation to have horse archers for the tribal version of that building. When it upgrades via feudalism, they are replaced with light cavalry and camel cavalry.

The problem you are facing is that only one type of special units troops are allowed from a holding. You can't have a mix of horse archers, camel cavalry, or war elephants coming from the same holding. Whichever special unit troop type gets introduced first becomes the only special unit troop type allowed unless that active building gets destroyed. There may be a mod that can override this, but it's a pretty obscure issue.

If you wish to remain tribal, you'll need to decide if you prefer horse archers or camel cavalry or a mix of both; then build the applicable building first. If you upgrade to feudalism, the horse archer problem will go away and you'll have more camel cavalry.

Ultimately though, you should be creating pure stacks of the Camel Warrior retinues as your primary force rather than worry about a few troops coming from a building that can't be separated into pure units. This would also mean focusing on the Camel Riding Ground building for the stat bonuses. Generally speaking, flanks of pure camels are the best units in the game.

[Closet Deadpooler]

Yeah I was hoping for a mod to fix it, I settled on removing horse archers from the desert riders building and giving it +3 Light Cavalry per level instead. That fixed it but now I'm having issues with a holding that I switched from Berber to Egyptian where the Berber Cavalry is inactive but my camel cavalry building isn't giving me camel cavalry even though I don't have horse archers in that levy anymore.

Fair, yeah I use levies more often. I've heard pure camel flanks can lead to bad tactics like unorganized harass though, is that still true?

[OathKeeper81]

Here's a post with a lot solid of information, including the comment section:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/mdo1nh/since_the_holy_fury_retinue_composition_post_got/

Other than Lancer horde troops buffed by nomadic capital buildings (which is an entirely different style of game play), there's not much that will demolish the enemy like Camels. You can min/max some slight diluting of pure camels.

As for the cultural building issue. Try quiting and reloading the game. If that doesn't work, you may need to mess around with changing the capital holding to another barony and then back.