How to form Outremer empire?

[gamebori]

I have a question about forming the Outremer empire. I fully control the Near-East, but the decision window says I do not.
I vassallized the Hospitallers and I checked all counties for independent barons.
Are there any more hidden requirements?
I am Uyghur, Catholic, Emperor of Arabia, king of Egypt and king of Jeruslem, the other kingdoms in the near east are my vassals. I am already over my vassal limit so I cannot revoke the kingdoms, so I really hope that that is not the issue.

[Solitus]

These are the requirements from the wiki. Check for baronies (like the Bektashi order)
Do you still control the county of Jerusalem?

Is not playing an alternate start
Is an adult
Is Independent
Must be at peace.
Must have 5000 prestige.
Must control the County.png county of Jerusalem.
Must have complete control of the Near east region.
Kingdom of Arabia
Kingdom of Mesopotamia
Kingdom of Yemen
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Kingdom of Syria
Duchy of Sinai
is Catholic or Fraticelli
has a Kingdom or Empire title in the Near East region
does not have the titles:
Byzantine Empire
Holy Roman Empire
Roman Empire
No one owns the Empire of Outremer

[Solitus]

Unfortunately I am not in the same boat you are. I expelled the one holy order I didn't vassalize, I can't find the last barony I am missing. Driving me insane.

[Solitus]

Has anyone had any success with this? I did S.P.Q.R; I know how to hunt for baronies in my lands. I control what the game says is the near east; but still descision is not available. Have spent hours (should probably just go to sleep) desperate to find but cannot find.

the ONLY think I can think of is my stupid vassal is in a war and one of his counties is occupied. does that count?

[Varainger]

Originally posted by gamebori:

Are there any more hidden requirements?

For the decision to show up in the first place it also requires demesne in
the middle east and you have to be king or emperor of it, the latter is as far as i recall covered by Arabia :

any_demesne_title = {
OR = {
tier = KING
tier = EMPEROR
}
region = world_middle_east

So need to own a holding or county in it directly.

PS: Wait, the decision does show up for you, but you simply can't take it ?
I got confused with Solitus posting about his problem here as well.
Well then i can only assume what dv said a below, that you miss some near east (in files called middle east) holding in a region you might have missed.

[Varainger]

Originally posted by Solitus:

...I know how to hunt for baronies in my lands. I control what the game says is the near east; but still descision is not available. Have spent hours (should probably just go to sleep) desperate to find but cannot find.
...

Errr...you say the decision "is not available" but say the game says you control the middle east and that you hunt for an ndepedent barony, so i suppose you did actually intend to say that you just "can't take" the decision, right ?

If so, then yes, it is because your vassal is at war.
war = no

A vassal is a part of your realm, so you are technically at war.
Same for changing succession, laws etc.,

which you probably discovered by now eight hours later..so my post was likely superfluous,
but i tried..

[dv]

Do you require the county of Jerusalem in your personal demesne?

custom_tooltip = {
text = owns_jerusalem_tt
has_landed_title = c_jerusalem
}



You require complete control of the following duchies. 26 duchies if I counted correctly.


world_middle_east = {
inclusive = yes
regions = {
world_middle_east_arabia world_middle_east_jerusalem
}
}

world_middle_east_jerusalem = {
duchies = {
#West Syria
d_aleppo d_antioch d_tripoli
#Jerusalem
d_oultrejourdain d_ascalon d_jerusalem d_galilee
}
}
world_middle_east_arabia = {
duchies = {
#East Syria
d_damascus d_palmyra d_mudar
#Arabia
d_arabia_petrae d_medina d_sanaa d_oman d_nefoud d_amman d_kermanshah d_tigris d_basra d_baghdad d_mosul d_jazira d_taizz d_hadramut d_samarra
#Sinai
d_sinai
}
}

[Solitus]

I started playing at midnight, wanting to get ready to take the descision. I desperately searched for two hours with my sleep deprived brain. Started a non ironman game in 769 as the Abassids and used console commands to set up the conditions for Outremer. Confirmed I owned the same land requirements. Decision still not active. Gave up and went to sleep.

There was a barony under Alba hiding in a vassals county; that I didn't see in my late night scramble. So yeah. If the decision isn't available but it looks like you own everything? its a barony. Look. at. every. single. county. If you can't find it? walk away and do something else. It will be a barony. It will be there.

[Solitus]

Originally posted by Varainger:

Originally posted by Solitus:

...I know how to hunt for baronies in my lands. I control what the game says is the near east; but still descision is not available. Have spent hours (should probably just go to sleep) desperate to find but cannot find.
...

Errr...you say the decision "is not available" but say the game says you control the middle east and that you hunt for an ndepedent barony, so i suppose you did actually intend to say that you just "can't take" the decision, right ?

If so, then yes, it is because your vassal is at war.
war = no

A vassal is a part of your realm, so you are technically at war.
Same for changing succession, laws etc.,

which you probably discovered by now eight hours later..so my post was likely superfluous,
but i tried..

Thank you for posting. I was convinced I was going crazy because no matter how much I looked, I couldn't find that single barony. Hell, I might have even lost my mind for a bit there. Who knows.

[gamebori]

I followed the wiki and it does not mention you also need Iraq and the Sunni Caliphate. As soon as I took those (took me a while, especially since I was a 100% threat) I could create the empire.
Also good to know beforehand is that you need to be a latin(?) culture to be able to change the culture to outremer, so that was a big disappointment, I am still Uyghur.
And the caliphates did not get destroyed. I have no clue why not.

[Solitus]

Originally posted by gamebori:

I followed the wiki and it does not mention you also need Iraq and the Sunni Caliphate. As soon as I took those (took me a while, especially since I was a 100% threat) I could create the empire.
Also good to know beforehand is that you need to be a latin(?) culture to be able to change the culture to outremer, so that was a big disappointment, I am still Uyghur.
And the caliphates did not get destroyed. I have no clue why not.

There is no Iraq Caliphate. The Caliphate isn't a title that holds de jure land; it is a title held by the current head of the Sunni and Shia religions. Iraq is a regular dejure kingdom that is mentioned for being needed to form the empire.

The caliphates did not get destroyed because you couldn't take the decision to form the empire of the outremer because you are still Uyghur (non latin culture)

[Varainger]

Originally posted by gamebori:

I followed the wiki and it does not mention you also need Iraq and the Sunni Caliphate.

As said above, you do not need the Sunni Caliphate or it being destroyed.

Iraq is part of the Near East region which you need.
The Wiki mentions this, as does the tooltip in game for the decision.

[Varainger]

Originally posted by Solitus:

[
The caliphates did not get destroyed because you couldn't take the decision to form the empire of the outremer because you are still Uyghur (non latin culture)

Nah, you don't need to be latin for the decision.
He also said "As soon as I took those I could create the empire."

If he holds the sunni caliphate title himself as he described it, then that's likely why it's still around.

[Solitus]

Originally posted by Varainger:

Originally posted by Solitus:

[
The caliphates did not get destroyed because you couldn't take the decision to form the empire of the outremer because you are still Uyghur (non latin culture)

Nah, you don't need to be latin for the decision.
He also said "As soon as I took those I could create the empire."

If he holds the sunni caliphate title himself as he described it, then that's likely why it's still around.

You're right. I was getting the requirements for embracing Outremer culture confused with forming the Empire itself.

[gamebori]

I should have written Sunni Caliphate and Iraq then.... I know there is no Iraq Caliphate.... But no matter how you name it, you need it. And it's not mentioned in this wiki: https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Decisions#Realm. Now I don't remember the order in which I did it but I could create the empire once I had both Baghdad (Sunni Caliphate) and Iraq.
I was Catholic and I did not hold the Caliphate title myself.

[gamebori]

And the tooltip only showed Near East. So if I ran into a bug and it's supposed to show the actual regions on the map then it makes more sense. The fact that they expected me to know exactly without explanation what the (ingame) Near-East is really annoyed me.