How to break a betrothal that was made with a favor?

[prince_of_arfon]

My heir (who just took over, so now it's me) was betrothed matrilineally to an unsuitable woman because her father, a powerful vassal, used a favor to force it. Because of the Favor, I can't simply "Break Betrothal." Murder obviously would take care of it but I'd rather avoid that. Would imprisoning work? Getting her excommunicated? Any other ideas?

[SkiRich]

A plot to kill is a safe bet, albeit, not guaranteed unless you are power enough to do it or recruit enough to do it.
You can do the following.
Excommunicate her now.
Marry her.
Divorce her.
Alternatively, you can excommunicate her, imprison her, then execute her.
Also, if you are just betrothed, and in control (no regent and you are liege) then when the betrothal comes due you can decline.

[VipreRX]

^ Yeah, they can force the betrothal but I don't think the marriage. When they come of age just refuse the marriage and take the hit to rep. Or any of the other suggestions.

[Azoniar]

How did he use the favor for that? You cant use a favor to betroth an heir.

[prince_of_arfon]

Declining doesn't make this betrothal go away. My guy just came of age, his father had just died, so he is now in control with no regent. But the girl's father keeps asking that the betrothed marry. I've declined it like 5 times but within a couple of in-game days the notification comes again, asking for the marriage to go through. I can't arrange another marriage until the betrothal goes away, obviously. And for some reason I don't see an excommunicate option with her, although I just recently had an unruly vassal excommunicated.

Originally posted by Azoniar:

How did he use the favor for that? You cant use a favor to betroth an heir.

This guy did. Frankly I'd like the Favor system to be tweaked, so that you can refuse to honor a favor but only for a very large prestige and opinion penalty. I'd have accepted that.

Sounds like marrying her and then trying to divorce might be the best option. Want to tread carefully, otherwise my empire will pass out of the family.

[prince_of_arfon]

UPDATE: So I figured out why excommunicate is grayed out for her right now -- my young king doesn't have enough piety to lose yet. So when he does I can try that.

[galadon3]

Originally posted by Azoniar:

How did he use the favor for that? You cant use a favor to betroth an heir.

probably did it at a time when the boy wasnt the heir. Had a similar problem when 2 sons died and a sneaky vassal had used a favor to get my eldest daughter (heir after the 2 sons) bethrothed to his son, before they had died. I had a good spymaster so the little bugger just had a veeeery unfortunate accident and somehow his sneaky father lost his lands a bit later and ended his days in a comfy oubliette.

[prince_of_arfon]

I decided to reload the autosave that was only 2 years prior, with the father (of the unfortunately betrothed prince) still alive and powerful enough to do something. I had him imprison the fiance and force her to become a nun, and that broke the betrothal. Took a big opinion penalty for being a tyrant, and of course her father hates me, and he *is* the biggest vassal in the empire. So that's not ideal. But I think I can handle him for now.

Next problem to solve is the fact that Gavelkind is going to give my best kingdom and lands to the second son (I guess the primary heir is only guaranteed the top title, which is the empire). I don't have the prerequisites to change to primogeniture...with luck this Emperor will survive to see the second son become an adult, and then can make him join a celibate order. I hope. Otherwise...dynastic power struggle!

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by prince_of_arfon:

I decided to reload the autosave that was only 2 years prior, with the father (of the unfortunately betrothed prince) still alive and powerful enough to do something. I had him imprison the fiance and force her to become a nun, and that broke the betrothal. Took a big opinion penalty for being a tyrant, and of course her father hates me, and he *is* the biggest vassal in the empire. So that's not ideal. But I think I can handle him for now.

Next problem to solve is the fact that Gavelkind is going to give my best kingdom and lands to the second son (I guess the primary heir is only guaranteed the top title, which is the empire). I don't have the prerequisites to change to primogeniture...with luck this Emperor will survive to see the second son become an adult, and then can make him join a celibate order. I hope. Otherwise...dynastic power struggle!

Kill all the other heirs and you get everything under gavelkind.

[prince_of_arfon]

Originally posted by SkiRich:

Kill all the other heirs and you get everything under gavelkind.

Yes yes, I just try to avoid murder, especially of family members, most especially of children. I mean, the previous emperor did assassinate his sister in order to stop a civil war, but the secret isn't out, so....

[ChaffyExpert]

Sounds like that vassal was plotting.

It'd be a shame if an accident were to happen to him....

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by prince_of_arfon:

I decided to reload the autosave that was only 2 years prior, with the father (of the unfortunately betrothed prince) still alive and powerful enough to do something. I had him imprison the fiance and force her to become a nun, and that broke the betrothal. Took a big opinion penalty for being a tyrant, and of course her father hates me, and he *is* the biggest vassal in the empire. So that's not ideal. But I think I can handle him for now.

Next problem to solve is the fact that Gavelkind is going to give my best kingdom and lands to the second son (I guess the primary heir is only guaranteed the top title, which is the empire). I don't have the prerequisites to change to primogeniture...with luck this Emperor will survive to see the second son become an adult, and then can make him join a celibate order. I hope. Otherwise...dynastic power struggle!

I am not sure, but i think if you give your second son a king-title that you don't care about, your heir will get the king title you want.

[Malus]

Bethrohals should automatically dissolve after both guys reach a certain age.

[prince_of_arfon]

Originally posted by Traror:

I am not sure, but i think if you give your second son a king-title that you don't care about, your heir will get the king title you want.

I've finally tried some save-scumming to try different things. I tried this, giving that second son a king title that I didn't care about. It just added to what he was already going to inherit, which to be clear, is the kingdom title that included my capitol county (which has hundreds of years of crown focus and improvements to make it very important). Anyway, I reloaded to before that. At the moment, it doesn't seem that I can do anything to keep Second Son from his inheritance outside of his death. Oh well, I might just have to go with the flow. Thanks for the ideas though.

Originally posted by Christmas Potajto:

Bethrohals should automatically dissolve after both guys reach a certain age.

Only once the marriage has been achieved. In this case, because the betrothal was gained by use of a Favor against me, even declining the marriage proposal didn't make the betrothal go away, and the vassal using the favor kept asking for the marriage again and again.

I ended up solving it by imprisoning her (and becoming a tyrant for it), then forcing her into a nunnery.

[f0rdi]

I had the same and in search of a solution I found this thread.

What actually works if they are your vassal is to use a weak hook and ask for them to join a clergy or take vows.
I got the weak hook when releasing from prison where he was for murder.

[Immortalis]

Originally posted by f0rdi:

I had the same and in search of a solution I found this thread.

What actually works if they are your vassal is to use a weak hook and ask for them to join a clergy or take vows.
I got the weak hook when releasing from prison where he was for murder.

First of all, no point necroing a thread that has been dead for five years.
Secondly, no weak hooks in CK2, that's something that exists only in CK3.