Merchant Republics have a serious problem

[Gilly]

I did a lengthy play as the Republic of Ragusa, posturing the republic as the inheritors of the Roman Senate and taking over the coast of Croatia, Serbia, and a little of Epirus as well as having some territory in Sicily, because of my Grandfathers conquests we were the largest land owners on the coast (all city lordships, owning no baronies), i join a plot to kill the Rector of Ragusa, for some reason i get pulled in a minor lord mayors civil war to increase council power, a faction i never joined, the war immediately ends after a battle i helped in and all of a sudden im a count, my family is removed from the merchant republic as a great family and im a count of a bunch of counties ruled by the cities. Its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that i put all this work trying to create a large republic game and the game, after all this time can't get it right and takes away all that progress. Republics are seriously flawed and it sucks that i "play realistically" (which means i dont just flood the campaign with election money and let other families rule (aka be elected by the Senate for fear of a dictator family). i was loyal to the senate and the republic and i get shafted!

[Orang]

The senate will decide your fate

[kaiyl_kariashi]

it sounds like you gave someone a favor and they used it to force you to join all their factions.

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by kaiyl_kariashi:

it sounds like you gave someone a favor and they used it to force you to join all their factions.

Originally posted by Basileus Black:

I did a lengthy play as the Republic of Ragusa, posturing the republic as the inheritors of the Roman Senate and taking over the coast of Croatia, Serbia, and a little of Epirus as well as having some territory in Sicily, because of my Grandfathers conquests we were the largest land owners on the coast (all city lordships, owning no baronies), i join a plot to kill the Rector of Ragusa, for some reason i get pulled in a minor lord mayors civil war to increase council power, a faction i never joined, the war immediately ends after a battle i helped in and all of a sudden im a count, my family is removed from the merchant republic as a great family and im a count of a bunch of counties ruled by the cities. Its ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t that i put all this work trying to create a large republic game and the game, after all this time can't get it right and takes away all that progress. Republics are seriously flawed and it sucks that i "play realistically" (which means i dont just flood the campaign with election money and let other families rule (aka be elected by the Senate for fear of a dictator family). i was loyal to the senate and the republic and i get shafted!

You need to learn the mechanics dude, instead of blaming the game for your lack of understanding how to wage intrigue and war to win.

Clearly the AI outwitted you here by bringing you into a faction of that resulted in you gaining land and them gaining the grand mayorship through council manipulation and disqualifying you from being an MR head ever again since now you are now a baron or count.

Kudos to the AI, you didnt see it coming.
Take a moment to study what happened and learn from it.

The game is far from shallow and you just scratched the surface.

Here is a clue, you could start your own MR in your lands and compete with the other one. But it sounds like the other MR is way too powerful.
I'd do it just to see how I could mess with the other MR.

[LSD]

^ Problem with "competing" is Paradox messed with the AI and seemingly made all the weak nations willing to trade sovereignty for vassalage. Most MRs end up under the thumb of the biggest kingdom/empire nearby, which typically means the HRE. Unless you want to watch the little % skull of attrition fight your battles, those wars are a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...

[SkiRich]

Originally posted by ;2626094424141379115:

^ Problem with "competing" is Paradox messed with the AI and seemingly made all the weak nations willing to trade sovereignty for vassalage. Most MRs end up under the thumb of the biggest kingdom/empire nearby, which typically means the HRE. Unless you want to watch the little % skull of attrition fight your battles, those wars are a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...

Agreed, but here is an opportunity for the OP to learn how to fight a stronger MR with a weaker one. Yep might be futile, but the lessons learned are valuable for the next play through.
The game clearly wont go in the direction he wanted, but still thats the genius of CKII, throwing the ever random destructive event at you to challenge you.
This sequence could have been prevented is a few places. All it would have taken is a few decisions in the right place and it would never have happened.
Take your pick, loyal council members, not joining a faction, payoff the right people, strategic marriages, etc.

[Gilly]

Originally posted by SkiRich:

Originally posted by kaiyl_kariashi:

it sounds like you gave someone a favor and they used it to force you to join all their factions.

Originally posted by Basileus Black:

I did a lengthy play as the Republic of Ragusa, posturing the republic as the inheritors of the Roman Senate and taking over the coast of Croatia, Serbia, and a little of Epirus as well as having some territory in Sicily, because of my Grandfathers conquests we were the largest land owners on the coast (all city lordships, owning no baronies), i join a plot to kill the Rector of Ragusa, for some reason i get pulled in a minor lord mayors civil war to increase council power, a faction i never joined, the war immediately ends after a battle i helped in and all of a sudden im a count, my family is removed from the merchant republic as a great family and im a count of a bunch of counties ruled by the cities. Its ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t that i put all this work trying to create a large republic game and the game, after all this time can't get it right and takes away all that progress. Republics are seriously flawed and it sucks that i "play realistically" (which means i dont just flood the campaign with election money and let other families rule (aka be elected by the Senate for fear of a dictator family). i was loyal to the senate and the republic and i get shafted!

You need to learn the mechanics dude, instead of blaming the game for your lack of understanding how to wage intrigue and war to win.

Clearly the AI outwitted you here by bringing you into a faction of that resulted in you gaining land and them gaining the grand mayorship through council manipulation and disqualifying you from being an MR head ever again since now you are now a baron or count.

Kudos to the AI, you didnt see it coming.
Take a moment to study what happened and learn from it.

The game is far from shallow and you just scratched the surface.

Here is a clue, you could start your own MR in your lands and compete with the other one. But it sounds like the other MR is way too powerful.
I'd do it just to see how I could mess with the other MR.

>Have over 3000 hours in CK2
>"learn the mechanics, bro"

i don't misunderstand the mechanics. It was a bug, through and through.
dont blame the player because a common mechanic of the game completely bricks the ability to continue a republic playthrough.

i didnt gain land, kept all land i originally had, all coastal counties with cities ruling them.
the war wasent won by anyone, if i am seeing it clearly the Rector of Ragusa was killed during the civil war, ending in a ceasefire, the Lord mayor who started the war is still the lord mayor. I owed noone favors, for as the largest and most powerful family in the Republic i needed noones help.

"the game is far from shallow and you just scratched the surface"
i have over 3000 hours i know every nook and cranny to the game, Im not playing full tilt autist world conquer, i play RolePlay for the stories, doing things my characters would do based on their traits instead of min-maxing and navigating the game for maximum benefit/gain. that got old.

You sound ridiculous with your false assumptions and snob mentality. get a grip.

*edit: you cant gain a ducal title in a ducal republic, so "clearly" you didnt read my post, nor understand the In DePtH mAnIpUlAtIoNs happening here "dude" the war was for, as clearly stated increased council power, not ducal claims.

[Gilly]

Originally posted by kaiyl_kariashi:

it sounds like you gave someone a favor and they used it to force you to join all their factions.

i didnt owe anyone favors. i keep all land with head of the republic family and being the largest, richest, family in the republic i didnt need to owe anyone anything. unless i accidentally misclicked join increase power faction when checking on any developments in that tab. i had no reason to join them. the war ended inconcusively i believe as the Rector died (ducal tier title)

[ChaffyExpert]

It doesn't sound like a bug, it sounds like you didn't have control of the merchant republic, a war happened, and you the republic didn't win leading to you not having a republic, or something like that.

My bets are on foreign influence (war) or a faction (that you were not a part of) won and it ended up with the end of the republic, with nothing you could do about it (due to not ruling the republic)

I don't know enough about the mechanics to say for sure.

[SkiRich]

You lost your MR house and gained land.
That to me sounds like a planed execution to rid the MR of your house. Especially since the MR still exists.
No snobbery intended but sorry you took it that way. With all those hours playing you still get owned by the AI and you think it’s a bug? Your words - Republics are seriously flawed -

No, sorry it’s a mechanic you didn’t see coming.

Something I have learned in the six months playing this game, I’m always learning something new I didn’t see coming or didn’t know could be done.

Take my advice, or don’t, I don’t care. But what I would do is analyze how this all happened and then use it to my advantage next time I play as an MR.

[★Jaw★]

I just wish you can refuse to become a Doge. Most times I wind up with a ton of prestige that I become a frontrunner to become the next Doge without having to pay anything into the campaign fund. I just wanna be a influential Patrician.

[nobleheretic]

I don't think that the AI is clever enough to use gamey mechanics to unseat a player from a patricianship.

[WolfWhiteFire]

Originally posted by Jaw:

I just wish you can refuse to become a Doge. Most times I wind up with a ton of prestige that I become a frontrunner to become the next Doge without having to pay anything into the campaign fund. I just wanna be a influential Patrician.

You can change your heir at will though, if your heir gets too much prestige then you can revoke the designated heir honorary title and give it to someone else with less prestige.

[WolfWhiteFire]

Originally posted by Basileus Black:

Originally posted by kaiyl_kariashi:

it sounds like you gave someone a favor and they used it to force you to join all their factions.

i didnt owe anyone favors. i keep all land with head of the republic family and being the largest, richest, family in the republic i didnt need to owe anyone anything. unless i accidentally misclicked join increase power faction when checking on any developments in that tab. i had no reason to join them. the war ended inconcusively i believe as the Rector died (ducal tier title)

Are you sure your character didn't do something that ended up in someone's favor before you controlled him? Events, character interactions, etc. can give a character a favor over someone else, and it is perfectly possible that while he was still your heir he ended up owing a favor to somebody, or that an event caused you to owe someone a favor and you just didn't realize it at the time.

[★Jaw★]

Originally posted by WolfWhiteFire:

Originally posted by Jaw:

I just wish you can refuse to become a Doge. Most times I wind up with a ton of prestige that I become a frontrunner to become the next Doge without having to pay anything into the campaign fund. I just wanna be a influential Patrician.

You can change your heir at will though, if your heir gets too much prestige then you can revoke the designated heir honorary title and give it to someone else with less prestige.

I'm saying I do not want to become the next leader of the Republic. What usually happens is that I, the Patrician, wind up with a lot of Prestige, myself, the character. I, do not want to become the Doge. But it is forced on me because of age and prestige. I do not think doing whatever with my heir as a Patrician eliminates me as the prospective next Doge.

[WolfWhiteFire]

Originally posted by Jaw:

Originally posted by WolfWhiteFire:

You can change your heir at will though, if your heir gets too much prestige then you can revoke the designated heir honorary title and give it to someone else with less prestige.

I'm saying I do not want to become the next leader of the Republic. What usually happens is that I, the Patrician, wind up with a lot of Prestige, myself, the character. I, do not want to become the Doge. But it is forced on me because of age and prestige. I do not think doing whatever with my heir as a Patrician eliminates me as the prospective next Doge.

I know you don't want to become the next doge, though I did misunderstand something.

I am used to thinking in terms of a NPC heir, if the heir in that case gets too much prestige then you can change it, but if you are already a non-doge patrician and your character gets too much prestige, then that isn't an option, so my mistake for thinking in terms of heirs and not your current character.

The only option I can think of in your case is to gift a bunch of gold to the patrician most likely to become the next doge, or to use cheats to remove prestige from yourself when you get too much.