how to increase my vassal limit

[Gunsaremagic]

?

[Mr_Faorry]

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Vassals#Direct_vassal_limits

[Heraclius Caesar]

the wiki isn't really helpful and tbh this is something that a lot of players find frustrating. it also has no historical basis whatsoever, which is disappointing and annoying in a historical game. in history, rulers had many direct vassals, and many lands personally under their control, and many had numerous duchies that they controlled. and yet in crusader kings 2, the player receives penalties for all these things. (?????????)
increasing your vassal limit is basically a juggling act. you have to take advantage of vassal transfers, laws, and title creations so that you're not constantly in the red. getting the imperial administration law helps somewhat but you also have to tinker with your council laws and centralization laws so that you don't have to give up a good sized personal demesne just to stay under some ridiculous, excessively low vassal limit.

[Mr_Faorry]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

the wiki isn't really helpful and tbh this is something that a lot of players find frustrating. it also has no historical basis whatsoever, which is disappointing and annoying in a historical game. in history, rulers had many direct vassals, and many lands personally under their control, and many had numerous duchies that they controlled. and yet in crusader kings 2, the player receives penalties for all these things. (?????????)

You: "the wiki isn't really helpful"
the wiki: *lists off a bunch of things that raise/ lower vassal limit answering the question being asked*

Seems pretty helpful to me.

Of course the game won't be 100% historically accurate as it's still a game and needs things for you to manage and ways to limit the player, having a vassal limit helps limit the player from just blobbing out like crazy.

[Platonov]

Usually you decrease your amount of vassal by creating dukedom and vassal kingdom.

[Platonov]

except in agot mod where you can't conquer the whole world and hold it as one.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Mr_Faorry:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

the wiki isn't really helpful and tbh this is something that a lot of players find frustrating. it also has no historical basis whatsoever, which is disappointing and annoying in a historical game. in history, rulers had many direct vassals, and many lands personally under their control, and many had numerous duchies that they controlled. and yet in crusader kings 2, the player receives penalties for all these things. (?????????)

You: "the wiki isn't really helpful"
the wiki: *lists off a bunch of things that raise/ lower vassal limit answering the question being asked*

Seems pretty helpful to me.

Of course the game won't be 100% historically accurate as it's still a game and needs things for you to manage and ways to limit the player, having a vassal limit helps limit the player from just blobbing out like crazy.

ok. I can play this game too.

You: doesn't answer the OP's question, simply posts a link to an actually very unhelpful wiki that uses technical terms a new player might not even know or grasp, along with mathematical equations to estimate vassal limit.

Me: gives the OP a somewhat helpful, brief, rudimentary guide to how to actually go about dealing with vassal limit, telling them how it actually is (it's cute how you happened to cut that part of my post out of your quote btw)

i get it that you're frustrated i indirectly called you out with your unhelpful post, but to try to make me look stupid is a mistake. maybe next time give a more helpful, direct answer instead of being a lame with a wiki link

also, i'm not looking for a game that "limits the player," and i really doubt most of the people that play this game are looking for that either. annoying, arbitrary restrictions and penalties and mechanics that have no basis in historical record (doesn't matter it's a game, its based on periods of history that it should be true to if it's going to portray them at all) and which are only meant to frustrate and defeat the player isn't fun or challenging or enjoyable and it's really a shame that the developers thought it would be.

Good luck to you

[Definitely NOT A Robot]

You can increase your vassal limit by ->

Playing as a ruler with high Diplomacy
Instituting laws that decentralize your realm, resulting in a smaller demesne size for you but a greater amount of vassals
Rise from count to duke, from duke to king, from king to emperor. Each tier of ruler allows for more direct vassals.
Try, when and wherever possible, to have your direct vassals consist only of people with one tier title below yours. So if you're an emperor, try to keep all your direct vassals as kings. Offload count and duke direct vassals off onto their de jure lieges whenever possible.
At some point in time, even that's not going to be enough. The only option you have at that point is to start handing vassals multiple titles. Example: Instead of having a King of Carinthia, a King of Italy, a King of Sicily, and a King of Sardinia & Corsica (which is 4 direct vassals) Consider giving 2 kings 2 titles each, or 1 king all 4 titles. Just take care not to make your vassals TOO powerful by doing so, that they overthrow you.

[galadon3]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

You: doesn't answer the OP's question, simply posts a link to an actually very unhelpful wiki that uses technical terms a new player might not even know or grasp, along with mathematical equations to estimate vassal limit.

Me: gives the OP a somewhat helpful, brief, rudimentary guide to how to actually go about dealing with vassal limit, telling them how it actually is (it's cute how you happened to cut that part of my post out of your quote btw)

probably in your dreams, the wiki actually lists everything that influence vassal-limit, so in fact it does answer the question how to increase it pretty conclusive.

Your bunch of platitudes, after a rant about "historical accuracy" that nobody asked for, doesn't list anything that increases the vassal-limit the wiki-link hadn't already given.

The only thing that one might add was that:

Originally posted by Platonov:

Usually you decrease your amount of vassal by creating dukedom and vassal kingdom.

short, precise and to the point and even if it wasnt part of the OPs question it might help with the problem behind the question

[Heraclius Caesar]

lol ok. i'm not going to argue with steam noodles it's awful how annoying people like you can be and its beat that i can't say what i'd like to say because someone such as yourself will tell on me and get me banned from the forum.
the wiki is, as i said, very unhelpful. it is not welcoming to a new player who probably doesn't understand what it's saying with the terminology used and then with the mathematical breakdown of what increases and decreases vassal limit. if those that edited the wiki made it easier to get for a new player, there probably wouldn't be so many posts like this, of new players who probably already saw the wiki and were looking for a more direct answer. A lot of new players have most likely never even heard the term "de jure" and don't understand the concept.
everything that i said is indisputable fact, and there were no platitudes. Another lame heard from i guess.
Good luck to you

[drummerkramer]

Originally posted by Gunsaremagic:

?

Focus on diplomacy and also marry someone with high diplomacy as well. High diplomacy gives you a boost on how many vassal you can hold. Always educate your own heir with yourself, or someone with good traits that is a Grey Eminence. Also, make sure you're picking the best person to be your Chancellor. If no one in your kingdom has at least 15 diplomacy, do a people search (one of the buttons at the bottom right of your screen). Select male only, non-ruler, within diplomacy range, and will join court. Then sort by highest to lowest. Try to find someone the same religion as you.

**Side note and fun tip. Search by male only, non-ruler, not married, will join court, and not of a great house. Look for people with a lot of money that have no kids or siblings. Invite them to your court and then kill them. Since they have no siblings or kids, their money goes to you. I have found people with $5,000+ even in the first hundred years of playing. Adds a huge boost to your early game.**

Look at your Realm - Centralization law. Dropping it below medium allows you to have more vassals but less counties. Raising it allows you to hold more counties directly, but fewer vassals.

Don't create too many new titles. Instead, grant the lands to someone who is already your vassal and let them make the title if they want. For example, as a Emperor if you wage multiple holy wars on duchies in the same kingdom, don't make the kingdom. Just grant all the duchies to your favorite child or vassal (of your blood). If that vassal wants to make the kingdom title that's their problem, not yours. When you do grant titles to others, make sure to check that box that transfers all De Jure titles under it as well. Or you're going to end up with a lot of angry vassals that want to control the lands within the title.

If you have too many vassals, look at your vassals you have and transfer the ones that are not your de jure lands. For example, If you're the king of Italy with the dutchy of Ivrea but the count of Lombardy is your vassal instead of being the vassal of the Duke of Lombardy, transfer the count over to the duke. You would right click on the duke and select 'Transfer Vassal". Sort by rank to find the highest rank you can transfer to get ride of him.

Also, watch out for waging wars in areas outside of your De Jure realm. Lets say you're the King of Italy again and you're attacking France, Germany, Aires, or whatever. If you are not pressing your own claim and getting the land yourself, when you win, the person that rules that county or dutchy you just won becomes your vassal. Since the land is outside of your de jure realm, you can't transfer it to anyone. So if you wage wars on multiple kingdoms outside of your realm, you can end up with a lot of vassals you can't transfer.

Hope this helps, and I agree, the Wiki pages suck for new players because they're too technical and don't do a good job of breaking down the concepts.

[Mr_Faorry]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

ok. I can play this game too.

You: doesn't answer the OP's question, simply posts a link to an actually very unhelpful wiki that uses technical terms a new player might not even know or grasp, along with mathematical equations to estimate vassal limit.

Me: gives the OP a somewhat helpful, brief, rudimentary guide to how to actually go about dealing with vassal limit, telling them how it actually is (it's cute how you happened to cut that part of my post out of your quote btw)

The wiki link I posted is pretty helpful as it gives just about every vassal limiting factor, sure I could have said "lower your centralisation and increase council power" but that omits many factors such as diplomacy which also affect the vassal limit. They don't need to read the maths equations if they don't understand them (though it's some pretty basic maths) as most of the parts you have actual control over don't need them anyway, the meat of it is in the laws and gov type which are also laid out there, you can also understand from it fairly easily that "higher diplo = higher vassal limit" without needing the understand the maths (again though, very basic maths that anyone over the age of 10 should understand).

Also I cut the rest of your reply because it wasn't relevant to what I was saying.

Besides your reply was pretty vague and not all that helpful, the most specific you go is "getting the imperial administration law helps somewhat but you also have to tinker with your council laws and centralization laws" which is pretty vague, it also assumes OP has conclave which they may not have.
Hell just saying "lowering centralisation laws and increasing council power laws will increase the limit" would have been a more helpful answer as it actually telling them how they can do so.

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

i get it that you're frustrated i indirectly called you out with your unhelpful post, but to try to make me look stupid is a mistake. maybe next time give a more helpful, direct answer instead of being a lame with a wiki link

My post was far from unhelpful, it's one of the most helpful in the thread as it linked to material that gives basically a full breakdown of vassal limit both with and without Conclave and for all the various gov types as OP never gives any information on what they are playing as. Meanwhile you come alone and just state "the wiki is unhelpful" yet don't back up that statement and conveniently ignore that the content of the link answers OP's question in the most in depth way possible.
Also posting a wiki link encourages OP to seek out answers themselves rather than making a forum post and being forced to wait for a reply.

Also nice job playing the internet psychologist there, do you feel smarter for it?

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

also, i'm not looking for a game that "limits the player," and i really doubt most of the people that play this game are looking for that either. annoying, arbitrary restrictions and penalties and mechanics that have no basis in historical record (doesn't matter it's a game, its based on periods of history that it should be true to if it's going to portray them at all) and which are only meant to frustrate and defeat the player isn't fun or challenging or enjoyable and it's really a shame that the developers thought it would be.

It's a video game, no video game is going to be 100% historically accurate as there still needs to be a game to play. Games have all sorts of things in them that have no basis in the real world because a game should and usually does focus on gameplay first, everything else second. It needs to have things like vassal limit to help contain the player (oh btw, you can disable vassal limit in the game rules if it bothers you so much, so it's a non complaint anyway) and stop them snowballing too hard which would make the game a joke.

[Heraclius Caesar]

lol ok. you're putting way too much effort into this and i'm clearly not the only person to state that the wiki is too technical and uninviting to a new player who may not already have an interest and background in medieval history. as i've said previously i'm done with you.

p.s., turning off vassal limit turns off ironman. i personally only play ironman, as do many others, so its not really a "non complaint."

[Mr_Faorry]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

lol ok. you're putting way too much effort into this and i'm clearly not the only person to state that the wiki is too technical and uninviting to a new player who may not already have an interest and background in medieval history. as i've said previously i'm done with you.

Pretty sure I already showed that the wiki really isn't "too technical and uninviting" as you can easily ignore the basic maths equations and just look at the parts you want. Also if the wiki is so uninviting to new players then how was I able to learn how to play the game from it?

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

p.s., turning off vassal limit turns off ironman. i personally only play ironman, as do many others, so its not really a "non complaint."

You can still play in ironman with vassal limit off, what are you on about?
Just because you lack any shred of self control to prevent yourself from cheating at every corner or savescumming everytime something goes wrong and need the game to forcible lock the ability away doesn't mean you can't play with disabled vassal limit. All unlimited vassals does (other than disable vassal limit) is disable achievements which are 100% worthless, mean nothing, and the vast majority of players have turned off anyway.

So yeah it really is a non complaint, you're crying about how "wahhh, the games too hard because there's a vassal limit, there was no vassal limit in real life so remove it" when there is straight up an option to make things the way you want.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Idk if you're out of your mind or what.
you didn't show anything other than your own ability to be proficient with it. i wasn't only talking about the math, i was talking about the technical terminology used which other people have also said is a turn off to new players. I don't have a problem with it especially since i'm well versed in medieval history but obviously some new players aren't, hence the posts like this 1 that the OP made.
when you go to play the game with ironman, if you attempt to alter vassal limit in the game rules, it will become red and say something along the lines of "this disables ironman." you make disabling achievements sound like no problem, considering you've gone after every achievement in the game. the vast majority of players haven't turned this off since people are getting achievements everyday. also, what is the point of playing ironman with disabled achievements? there is none. you sound ridiculous.
i have never once cheated or save scummed in this game or any game, so where that came from, i don't know either. that is quite an accusation though and its extremely unfortunate that i cant physically get satisfaction considering the distance between us.
clearly this faorry guy has some sort of mental issue or something so good luck to you.

[galadon3]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

lol ok. i'm not going to argue with steam noodles it's awful how annoying people like you can be and its beat that i can't say what i'd like to say because someone such as yourself will tell on me and get me banned from the forum.

You mean you can't go beyond calling people a "steam noodle" instead of flinging around insults with impunity as you have done before?
What an unbelievable injustice that you actually have to conform to the bare minimum of civilized behaviour.