The benefits of converting into tribal to feudalism?

[Intercourse instructor]

I haven't tried playing feudalism i only usually play the khanate and vikings. i like the raiding aspect of the game but is there a real benefit of converting my kingdom, up to a empire (playing as the finnish)

[Don Felipes]

If you go Feudal you get more heavy infantry and you can access to heavy cavalry. As well, you get more money because cities.

[Don Felipes]

ps. And you get more options for inheritance laws, that makes your realm more estable (can get rid of gavelkind, for instance).

[gregoryk64]

As mentioned in the above reply, the biggest benefit is higher income, additional succession laws and eventually stronger armies. I sat "eventually" because when you first convert your government your levies will be reduced significantly while your tribal holdings rebuild into castles. Also, you will no longer be able to call tribal vassals to war as allies, but can only raise levies from vassals. These levies will also be reduced, since your vassals will remain tribal for a while and have lowered opinion of you due to wrong government type. All of this can leave you exposed if you have stronger neighbors with casus belli on your holdings.

Eventually you will become stronger, but considering you will experience a temporary period of weakness (sometimes a few years) make sure you have built up the tribal holdings in your demesne as close to max as possible before you convert.

[Segovax]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

As mentioned in the above reply, the biggest benefit is higher income, additional succession laws and eventually stronger armies. I sat "eventually" because when you first convert your government your levies will be reduced significantly while your tribal holdings rebuild into castles. Also, you will no longer be able to call tribal vassals to war as allies, but can only raise levies from vassals. These levies will also be reduced, since your vassals will remain tribal for a while and have lowered opinion of you due to wrong government type. All of this can leave you exposed if you have stronger neighbors with casus belli on your holdings.

Eventually you will become stronger, but considering you will experience a temporary period of weakness (sometimes a few years) make sure you have built up the tribal holdings in your demesne as close to max as possible before you convert.

Also get hospital access as feudal. With the prestige retinues the transition period isn't leaving you a sitting duck anymore, you can have a prestige-cost retinue of 10k LI and 5K LC/HI sitting there as a doomstack deterrent.

Honestly the only reason I swap to feudal anymore is succession and hospitals. The better income isn't an incentive if your costs are prestige and the better troops aren't mich better anymore with the HF update.

[Storm]

Originally posted by Felipelicano:

If you go Feudal you get more heavy infantry and you can access to heavy cavalry. As well, you get more money because cities.

It's worth noting, almost everything event-based will cost more because of income scaling. You also lose a large part of the tribal pagan bonuses, though that varies based on which pagan you are. Notably, you lose the subjugation cb.

[g0r3yl0v3rz]

I actually prefer staying tribal as long as you reform your religion

[GrumpyDragon]

One huge penalty as fuedal, that you dont get as much, if at all, with tribal, is disease. With holy fury an a shattered world with no fuedal realms, forget it, do not be the first to switch or your lands will be 1 great big disease pit cause ALL outbreaks will be happening in youe territory pretty much non stop. The game seems to want a certain number of outbreaks per decade, and if yer the only fuedal, yer the one getting them and thats even with strong hospitals

[kazaddum]

Originally posted by Storm77777:

Originally posted by Felipelicano:

If you go Feudal you get more heavy infantry and you can access to heavy cavalry. As well, you get more money because cities.

It's worth noting, almost everything event-based will cost more because of income scaling. You also lose a large part of the tribal pagan bonuses, though that varies based on which pagan you are. Notably, you lose the subjugation cb.

However, after reforming, you can wage holy wars.

[Kraek]

My advice: don't rush switching to feudal. At least the first few hundred years, it's perfectly legit to stay tribal, especially if you've reformed the religion. You will always be playing with a hand tied behind your back due to the lack of heavy infantry, but defensively, you are en par.

As time passes by though, you will find yourself outpaced by other powers, and as they increase their military organisation research (but the ai takes it's sweet time), you will start to feel weak. Even then, you can expect to finish the game staying as reformed tribal. (as an unreformed you have no hope, since everyone around you will convert away and become your enemies)

Still, in the end, switching to feudal is the natural route to take, once you feel ready (meaning: upgraded all your holdings, and your major vassals have also upgraded, since they will follow you into feudal.... you need this to remove internal instability that would otherwise be caused by your flip).

fyi: as a feudal christian, you can also raid. Just see you e.g. get the norse culture.