Is Jade Dragon worth buying right now?

[VexTary]

I kind of liked the new additions I seen, and since it's on sale right now, I thought about buying it.

However I've seen a few reviews stating some problems with the DLC, that made me a bit worried.

Someone mentioned that the tributary mechanic is broken, stating that Hungary, Teutonic Knights and Byzantium became tributarios of the Chinese Empire, which is kind of immersion breaking and unrealistic.

Also someone mentioned that the Chinese Army could traverse the entire Siberia in the winter, without attrition and conquer a Roman empire by capturing a single small duchy, thanks to a poor war score scalling. This is really bad, as I've seen that they have doomstacks that are already problematic... If they are "invincible" like that, it can be very game breaking.

Are these problems still present? Are there still problems with it?

Thanks for the attention.

[eastcoastceo]

I like Jade Dragon, but I always turn the Chinese invasions off in the game rule settings. Then you get all the goodies, without the risk of massive doomstacks showing up unwanted.

[NinjaPlease]

If turning the doomstacks/invasions off makes the game incompatible with Ironman mode then it will never be worth getting.But like you I haven't gotten it. Just posing a possible scenario, as the game nukes ironman mode with seemingly any options changed in the settings anyhow.

[VexTary]

I see.. Thanks for the responses.

I'll wait for a few more answers before deciding if I should buy it or not.

[steven1mac]

I think you can disable chinese invasions, but adventures from china has to be enable to keep iron man achievements. You would still have the western protectorate to deal with however.

[VexTary]

I see. I wouldn't like to be forced to turn off features from the expansion because they are broken or bad implemented, so if someone knows detailed information about these problems I presented on the first post, I would be very grateful.

Thanks for everyone who's answering!

[Nails Nathan]

I just finished a game 769 to 1453 as TAID, I did not have any of the problems you mentioned.
But, that does not mean that they don't exist. I just didn't incur any problems on my play through.
If you like the features that it adds to the game, and it would be beneficial to you, buy it.
For $7.49, it's worth the risk.
Take care.

[Fredericks of Cursewood]

I have never seen China create Doomstacks like that. I mean maybe 40-70K troops or something, but nothing compared to the Mongel Horde with Horselords of 200K +.

Unless you are starting in India or Tibet, the Chinese didn't have much of an impact in any of my games.

[VexTary]

I see. That's good to know.

I'll probably buy it then. Thanks a lot for the answers, guys!

[kyorinrin]

I use the rule disabling distance so anyone can contact China and just turn off major invasions.

Although in all honesty half the reason I bought it was for the portraits and knowing that random worlds we're around the corner I wanted access to everything.

Also it as an easy way to get rid of the spymaster that disliked me when she wanted to go make contact with them. It forced her to step down without making her hate me. All in all though I dont see much of it otherwise yet.

[VexTary]

Originally posted by kyorinrin:

I use the rule disabling distance so anyone can contact China and just turn off major invasions.

Although in all honesty half the reason I bought it was for the portraits and knowing that random worlds we're around the corner I wanted access to everything.

Also it as an easy way to get rid of the spymaster that disliked me when she wanted to go make contact with them. It forced her to step down without making her hate me. All in all though I dont see much of it otherwise yet.

I see. Speaking of which, do you know how the Aztecs works on the random worlds/shattered world? They can appear on "Europe" or something, and we can actually play as them?

[NinjaPlease]

As far as I know unless you manage to collaborate with the Aztecs you either get overrun by them or manage to turn them back and out of Europe. Last I checked there is no bookmarked scenario to play with in ironman mode with at start. Any game playing as them would have to be modded/console commands which would invalidate your checksum (ironman mode won't work). As to what I've seen from a few buddies who streamed a few games on twitch (and caused them to rage quit) the Chinese doomstacks are immune to attrition and can force you to surrender with BS warscore gains just from taking a province or two. They're far worse than the Mongols, who at least play by the same rules. I looked into things a bit more during lunch today and was convinced I'll pass on it. Not telling you what to do, but I really see more problems added than benefits to the quality of gameplay from that DLC.

[al_x_ator2411]

The CBs and some other quality of life improvements of Jade Dragon are totally worth the discounted price. And the vast majority of the China mechanics are great too. China is supposed to be the ultimate end boss and their armies always scale to yours and are attrition free for that reason.

Of course you can also totally avoid fighting them, either by peace deals or with disabling major Chinese invasions (I don't see why disabling one of the features in the game rules disqalifies the whole DLC; people still love Way of Life while disabling AI seduction).

But like all other CKII fetures a lot depends on RNG. On some playthroughs you'll hardly hear from China while in others they'll become a problem. It needs several expanionist emperors in a row for Chinese influence to reach Europe and I saw that only once so far.

[NinjaPlease]

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

The CBs and some other quality of life improvements of Jade Dragon are totally worth the discounted price. And the vast majority of the China mechanics are great too. China is supposed to be the ultimate end boss and their armies always scale to yours and are attrition free for that reason.

Of course you can also totally avoid fighting them, either by peace deals or with disabling major Chinese invasions (I don't see why disabling one of the features in the game rules disqalifies the whole DLC; people still love Way of Life while disabling AI seduction).

But like all other CKII fetures a lot depends on RNG. On some playthroughs you'll hardly hear from China while in others they'll become a problem. It needs several expanionist emperors in a row for Chinese influence to reach Europe and I saw that only once so far.

The amount of manpower the game gives them is utterly nonsensical. Jade Dragon belongs with Sunset Invasion at scale of implausibility. Infantry crossing Eurasia with no attrition is BS no matter the number or scaling (they wouldnt be able to supply even the amounts they get, and thus scaling the numbers is utter BS again).

Edit: Kowtow mechanic and a few other functions are meaningless wihtout the threat implied by use of force however. The problem lies in the lack of attrition for their forces and scaling them rather than a normal mechanic would entail. They aren't a full fledged invasion, but a punititve expedition, there shouldnt be a capability to defeat a coalition or sizeable power scale of an Empire or strong Kingdom. If one thinks the CBs added are worth it, given the other aspects of the game as I said is up to them, as I said I'm not telling them what to do, however asserting that there aren't notable problems with the DLC and imbalances/issues ongoing is odd. (Western Protectorate/etc)

[al_x_ator2411]

I'm just saying that (in my opinion) the positive features of the DLC are worth the discounted price and that a player can choose to avoid any comfrontation with China thus overcoming the bad feature.

[NinjaPlease]

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

I'm just saying that (in my opinion) the positive features of the DLC are worth the discounted price and that a player can choose to avoid any comfrontation with China thus overcoming the bad feature.

I can disagree and respect that at the same time. Fair enough. Just seems to undermine the point of a few features by disabling it. If pdox simply made the functionality of it not absurd with the attrition/scaling aspect I'd probalby have little complaints. That's the main bugaboo for me, that the main selling point is the least beneficial aspects of it.