Byzantine Iconoclasm in 769 start- will it last?

[eastcoastceo]

Started a game using Ruler Designer- made myself Greek Orthodox with the intent of swearing fealty to the Byzantine Empire.

Now I noticed that the lords of the Byzantine Empire are not Orthodox, but Iconoclasts in the 769 start. Their MA is in the mid 60% range, and the Patriarch of Constantinople is Iconoclast too. The Orthodox MA is 20%, with no religious head, and the only rulers with that faith are 3 merc captains and me.

The Byz Emperor accepted my fealty, but he is Zealous and thinks I am a heretic. I am tempted to convert to Iconoclast to have good relationships with my powerful neighbors. If I convert, I will have to purge my court of Orthodox characters (including my wife), and find a Iconoclast chaplain to help convert my lands and subjects.

Here's the question- Does the Iconoclast heresy tend to persist in 769 games, or will there be an event- like the "Start of Viking Age"- where the Byz Empire suddenly drops the heresy and becomes regular Orthodox?

I don't want to do all this work to become a heretic if I means I will be the only ruler of my faith (again) in just a few years.

In the real-world history, the Byzantines flipped between Iconoclasm and Orthodox a few times, before dropping Iconoclasm for good in the late 800s. Is this modeled in the game?

[Merkatz]

From my experience, Iconoclast doesn't last. It may take an Emperor or two, but usaully Orthodoxy comes back. You can help keep it alive too.

[that guy]

I don't know if it's random chance or if the AI is just that cunning, but usually the Byzantine emperor will flip back to Orthodox as soon as most of his vassals become Iconoclast and go on a religious revocation spree.

[Beetle]

From my experience it tends to flip around a bit at first (with iconiclasm becoming the major faith reducing orthodocy to a heresy for a few years till it flips back again) but usually the orthodox faith will become the main branch again.

[eastcoastceo]

Originally posted by that guy:

usually the Byzantine emperor will flip back to Orthodox as soon as most of his vassals become Iconoclast and go on a religious revocation spree.

What an S.O.B.! No wonder the Byzantine Empire is doomed to fail. :-)

I guess I will just stay Orthodox for a while and see what happens.

Since I have no religious head currently, I guess that means that my bishops will pay taxes to me instead of the religious head. Or is that not an issue either way when Orthodox? I also don't see a away to nominate anyone in my court to be an a successor to the current Bishops. Will that change when there is a religious head?

This is my first time playing as anything other than Catholic or unreformed Pagan, so not sure how that works.

[Luzilyo]

additionally, though kinda off topic: i think when you convert, there is a chance that some of your vassals/courtiers will convert with you. not sure though, i haven't converted very often and i might remember it wrong.

[eastcoastceo]

Another stupid question from an Orthodoxy noob:

I am currently a Duke, and the Byz Empire is not my de jure liege. If I become a King, and make one of my Orthodox Bishops a Prince-Archbishop, will he become the autocephalous patriarch for my newly created Kingdom?

And if he does become a vassal Patriarch for my kingdom, is this as powerful as having a Anti-Pope while being a Catholic ruler?

Or would this only work if I was a king of an Orthodox holy site like Jerusalem?

[Donathan Cheadledge]

It tends to flip a bit, and then iconoclasm usually dies eventually. Can be variations though because ck2 does like to meme every now and then

Originally posted by eastcoastceo:

Another stupid question from an Orthodoxy noob:

I am currently a Duke, and the Byz Empire is not my de jure liege. If I become a King, and make one of my Orthodox Bishops a Prince-Archbishop, will he become the autocephalous patriarch for my newly created Kingdom?

And if he does become a vassal Patriarch for my kingdom, is this as powerful as having a Anti-Pope while being a Catholic ruler?

Or would this only work if I was a king of an Orthodox holy site like Jerusalem?

I read the wiki article on this for you but tbh I just confused myself whilst reading it, maybe you'll have better luck:

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Autocephaly

As far as I can tell, it looks like your court chaplain becomes an autocephalus patriarch upon creating the kingdom, without needing to grant them any territory. I may have read this completely wrong tho and have never actually done the thing you're describing in game before.

[eastcoastceo]

Originally posted by Retired Messiah:

I read the wiki article on this for you but tbh I just confused myself whilst reading it, maybe you'll have better luck:

As far as I can tell, it looks like your court chaplain becomes an autocephalus patriarch upon creating the kingdom, without needing to grant them any territory.

LOL, I read that article myself, and getting a free Patriarch seems too good to be true. Thanks for the 2nd pair of eyes.

Guess I will have to experiment a bit, then post my experience back to this board. It seems playing as an Orthodox character is way less popular than Catholics or Pagans, so it is hard to find existing threads relevant to this topic.

[Doc]

The patriarch is free, but note two things - one, he's not one of the Pentarchs, which is probably what you were excited about, and two, he's autocephalous, meaning he's tied to your primary Kingdom/Empire title - which is useless as far as excommunicating people outside your lands goes.
Now, if, for example, you should happen to take one of the Pentarchy (e.g. Alexandria), and for whatever reason there's an Orthodox realm in Ethiopia, you could appoint that Pentarch your Court Chaplain, and the Ethiopian ruler will share the same religious head as you for you to do with as you wish (since Abyssinia, Africa, Egypt, and Nubia all are under the Patriarch of Alexandria). More germanely, all your duke-tier vassals will be under whatever Patriarchate you're under - but if you have King-tier vassals, if they're not under one of the Pentarchs, they'll have their own Patriarch (and you thus can't excommunicate them).
For an example; if you're (somehow for the sake of argument) the Orthodox Sultan of Mauretania, and you wanted to contend with the also-Orthodox Mansa of Mali (what kind of bizarro universe is this), neither of you would share a religious head, as both of you would have your own Patriarchs of (Insert Kingdom Name).