Buddhism or Taoism for Tibet?

[Morindacil]

I'm playing as the Tibetan Empire at the 769 start. I'm wondering which religion should I go for? Buddhism or Taoism? I'm more leaning towards Taoism because its Holy Sites are near Tibet. Buddhist Holy Sites are around India, and I don't really feel like expanding into India with Tibet because of bad experiences with trying to maintain a large empire. So I am wondering, which religion should I go for, in your honest opinions?

[Doc]

Take a third option and go with Bon, so that you can keep Monastic Feudalism.
Remember, you only get it if you're either Bon or Buddhist. Taoism is tempting with its buffs - but with the hefty drawback of losing your unique government type.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Doc:

Take a third option and go with Bon, so that you can keep Monastic Feudalism.
Remember, you only get it if you're either Bon or Buddhist. Taoism is tempting with its buffs - but with the hefty drawback of losing your unique government type.

Monastic Feudalism just looks and sounds like Feudalism when I played it, other than able to hold temples like the Muslims can. Also I don't like the sound of the Bon religion because it can't reform and one cannot demand conversion. So it's... useless on the long run.

[Richard]

Taoism is a slow play. You can't have holy wars.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Richard:

Taoism is a slow play. You can't have holy wars.

I'm not planning on expanding as Tibet anyway. Rather just focus on stabilizing and strengthening Tibet against the eventual Mongol invasion.

[L.E.G.O. STARWARS III]

go Christian DEUS VULT

[Merkatz]

Buddhism. Taoism, in game, is boring and Buddhism has it's own buffs plus a monastic secret society to make converting provences easier as well as help you get all the good traits and passing them onto heirs.

[Doc]

Originally posted by Torag1000:

Monastic Feudalism just looks and sounds like Feudalism when I played it, other than able to hold temples like the Muslims can. Also I don't like the sound of the Bon religion because it can't reform and one cannot demand conversion. So it's... useless on the long run.

Well, you also get a unique building (Gompa Monastary) in Castle holdings, which will help with tech and adds levy size - which, since you don't seem to plan to expand, helps. But since you can have that with Buddhism anyway....Buddhism.
I was only really suggesting it because you said you didn't want to expand into India for the Buddhist holy sites, and 3 of the 5 Bon ones are in Tibet, while the other two are within a duchy or two of Tibet (Balkh in Khorasan and Khotan in, er, Khotan). For the same effort, you'll only get 3 of the Buddhist holy sites.
Maybe make your decision based on societies if you have MNM? Taoist lets you into the Hermetics, Buddhist gives you Monastic Orders, both of which are nice.

[Azunai]

buddhist is pretty neat. they get bonus learning for free (+4 just for being buddhist), ambitions to get rid of some vices/bad traits and 3 different schools to pick from. one adds +1 health i think, another one adds +5 vassal opnion. don't remember the 3rd (fertility bonus maybe?)

and they have heir designation, which can be pretty useful if one of your kids has better traits than the others.

also, they can have concubines and intermarry with hindus and jains (and i think also taoists and bon?).

MA isn't all that critical for buddhists. if you just want to convert your lands, you can also join the monastic society. at the highest rank, you can convert provinces instantly (if you have no other use for the society points).

great religion for a "peace & prosperity" run without territorial ambitions.

[Merkatz]

Originally posted by Doc:

I was only really suggesting it because you said you didn't want to expand into India for the Buddhist holy sites.

This is a good point about Buddhist holy sites, but I feel that it's not much of a problem to worry about any more. I like playing Buddhist in this game and recently the A.I. in India seems to have less of a 'hard-on' for Hinduism. Part of the problem I've always had was that India just seemed to mass convert to Hinduism. Now, the Bengali realms seem to like staying Buddhist.

Buddhists usually manage to maintain 3 of their 5 holy sites in most of my new games. That said, the Monastic order and Buddhism's lack of heresies makes it one of the religions that can easily work with low moral authority... The other being Jainism.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Merkatz:

Buddhism. Taoism, in game, is boring and Buddhism has it's own buffs plus a monastic secret society to make converting provences easier as well as help you get all the good traits and passing them onto heirs.

Wait, what? Buddhism has a secret society that allows easier conversion? Wow. Well I think I should stay as a Buddhist, considering the lack of heresies it has as well.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Doc:

Originally posted by Torag1000:

Monastic Feudalism just looks and sounds like Feudalism when I played it, other than able to hold temples like the Muslims can. Also I don't like the sound of the Bon religion because it can't reform and one cannot demand conversion. So it's... useless on the long run.

Well, you also get a unique building (Gompa Monastary) in Castle holdings, which will help with tech and adds levy size - which, since you don't seem to plan to expand, helps. But since you can have that with Buddhism anyway....Buddhism.
I was only really suggesting it because you said you didn't want to expand into India for the Buddhist holy sites, and 3 of the 5 Bon ones are in Tibet, while the other two are within a duchy or two of Tibet (Balkh in Khorasan and Khotan in, er, Khotan). For the same effort, you'll only get 3 of the Buddhist holy sites.
Maybe make your decision based on societies if you have MNM? Taoist lets you into the Hermetics, Buddhist gives you Monastic Orders, both of which are nice.

Oh yes, the Gompa Monastery. That's true. I should stay as Monastic Feudalism then.

That's true, but considering that Bon can't be reformed... and that its pagan attrition is useless in the late game, and that it can't really proselytize well, I can't really consider that option.

I have Monks and Mystics. And hmm, I'll decide eventually, thanks for the advice.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Azunai:

buddhist is pretty neat. they get bonus learning for free (+4 just for being buddhist), ambitions to get rid of some vices/bad traits and 3 different schools to pick from. one adds +1 health i think, another one adds +5 vassal opnion. don't remember the 3rd (fertility bonus maybe?)

and they have heir designation, which can be pretty useful if one of your kids has better traits than the others.

also, they can have concubines and intermarry with hindus and jains (and i think also taoists and bon?).

MA isn't all that critical for buddhists. if you just want to convert your lands, you can also join the monastic society. at the highest rank, you can convert provinces instantly (if you have no other use for the society points).

great religion for a "peace & prosperity" run without territorial ambitions.

That's true. Those unique mechanics with buddhism are quite helpful.

They can intermarry with Taoists and Bon, yes, though the Bon peeps are quite disliking of those who are Buddhists because of the Infidel opinion negative.

Really? That makes Buddhism the more viable option than the other two: Taoism and Bon.

[Morindacil]

Originally posted by Merkatz:

Originally posted by Doc:

I was only really suggesting it because you said you didn't want to expand into India for the Buddhist holy sites.

This is a good point about Buddhist holy sites, but I feel that it's not much of a problem to worry about any more. I like playing Buddhist in this game and recently the A.I. in India seems to have less of a 'hard-on' for Hinduism. Part of the problem I've always had was that India just seemed to mass convert to Hinduism. Now, the Bengali realms seem to like staying Buddhist.

Buddhists usually manage to maintain 3 of their 5 holy sites in most of my new games. That said, the Monastic order and Buddhism's lack of heresies makes it one of the religions that can easily work with low moral authority... The other being Jainism.

Hmm... I see. That makes Buddhism more appealing to Tibet, and considering they were historically Buddhists, I should pick that. Thanks!

[Merkatz]

Originally posted by Torag1000:

Wait, what? Buddhism has a secret society that allows easier conversion? Wow. Well I think I should stay as a Buddhist, considering the lack of heresies it has as well.

They only have one secret society available to them and it is a Monastic society. All the monastic secret societies, when you reach max rank, allow you to spend 1000 devotion to convert a single county. If you start as a member at 16 and do your 'missions' you can easily rank your way up, collect a bunch of virtues (patience, diligent, etc) along the way and convert 5-10 counties in said character's lifetime.

As a Buddhist I usually just have my Chaplain research culture tech and rely almost entirely on my Secret Society convertion and my vassals to convert my realm. I usually end up with legalism 3 pretty quickly in the Charlemagne start. Usually by my 2nd or 3rd character.

Originally posted by Azunai:

don't remember the 3rd (fertility bonus maybe?)

It's a +1 learning which is in addition to the learning bonus for just being any Buddhist.

Theravadan branch.

[Visi]

Yeah it'd be nice if Bon was buffed a bit in some way.