Merchant Republic Questions/Advice

[andrewdemayo]

Hi all.

I'm currently playing as a Merchant Republic for the first time, and there's a few thing that I'm not sure of, and can't find in the wiki, so thought I'd check and see if anyone here knows.

1. Am I able to create Vassal Merchant Republics, and if so, how do their trade posts work with those from the 'main' republic? I've gotten to King-tier starting as Amalfi, and recently conquered Sardina - would the new patricians add to the trade network, create a new one, or what?

2. Is there any consistent way to find inheriting women that I can marry? Bride price is not a problem, but even as King-Tier Serene Doge, when I attempt to marry my sons to a Countess or Duchess, I will not be able to due to my sons being too low a rank for a regular marriage according to AI.

3. Is there any way to keep at least some of my held cities/baronies if I lose the Doge-dom? I know I can grant titles to family members, but that excludes them from the succession (and for cities, they become elective, and will not stay with the family).

Any advice on these would be great.

[Merkatz]

1. You cannot be a merchant republic with vassal merchant republics. You can have 'normal' republics with mayoral inheritence but none of the trade post mechanics.

2. There are two ways. One is to fling your money around and buy favors. You'll have to be strategic. Buy a favorable marriage from a woman not immediately going to inherit... then assassinate everyone ahead of her. The other is to land some of your dynastic heirs. Say you are the king-tier doge of Pisa. You have control of Corsica and Sardina. Give one of your sons/nephews/grandchildren a barony there, then give them the counties, the Duchies and finally, the Kingdom. Yes, they will be independent, but now all of you are relatives to a king.

3. The only title you should lose and no longer control after you are no longer doge is the capital of your republic. Everything else should stay in your control.

Edit: Adding to two. You can also settle for handing out duchies if you want to keep territory. Then give kingdoms when you are empire tier.

[CidDaBird]

Yeah no problem, MR's are tricky and I love playing as them. I'll give you some advice and your welcome to check out my CK2 screenshots if you need some encouragement.

1) Yes and you have no limit in how many you can have within your releam since you are a MR but something to keep in check is that, at the most, have 4 duchy MR's. Never give another MR a kingdom title, like if you become a emperor.

2) No altogether. You need to improve relations to make proper allies, with kingdoms and empires as a MR. Even being a emperor its hard to marry a duchess, even.

3) The best way to do this is improve your MR buildings first, all at max. Kill all of the other houses off. In doing so they have a mansion without any upgrades. (This will make you earn less ducuts from them but you will be sure to have more money from the start compared to a new house.) In doing all of that if you let yourself die without being the kingdom owner, a vassal of the Doge-dom as you so put, you can claim land and take it for yourself, which, if you become king again and lose it for whatever reason, you should have those titles. Since you killed off the other houses at anytime you just kill the king and reclaim your kingdom again.

I have been a Jewish Venice emperor before and I got to say its so much fun.

[CidDaBird]

Nguyên văn bởi Merkatz:

1. You cannot be a merchant republic with vassal merchant republics. You can have 'normal' republics with mayoral inheritence but none of the trade post mechanics.

2. There are two ways. One is to fling your money around and buy favors. You'll have to be strategic. Buy a favorable marriage from a woman not immediately going to inherit... then assassinate everyone ahead of her. The other is to land some of your dynastic heirs. Say you are the king-tier doge of Pisa. You have control of Corsica and Sardina. Give one of your sons/nephews/grandchildren a barony there, then give them the counties, the Duchies and finally, the Kingdom. Yes, they will be independent, but now all of you are relatives to a king.

3. The only title you should lose and no longer control after you are no longer doge is the capital of your republic. Everything else should stay in your control.

Edit: Adding to two. You can also settle for handing out duchies if you want to keep territory. Then give kingdoms when you are empire tier.

Your first is just wrong, second I can agree to most of it. You can buy favors but that costs too much gold. also to the 3rd answer not always.

[Merkatz]

Nguyên văn bởi caringisdaring:

Your first is just wrong, second I can agree to most of it. You can buy favors but that costs too much gold. also to the 3rd answer not always.

Did they change MR recently? Never used to have MR vassals as an MR in my previous games.

Edit: Started the a game as Genoa in the late start and 'cheated' to take Tunis. Tried to set it up as a merchant republic (grant mayor the county, then hand him the duchy) and he a stayed a normal, non-tradepost republic.

[Sir Hornet]

Nguyên văn bởi Merkatz:

Nguyên văn bởi caringisdaring:

Your first is just wrong, second I can agree to most of it. You can buy favors but that costs too much gold. also to the 3rd answer not always.

Did they change MR recently? Never used to have MR vassals as an MR in my previous games.

Edit: Started the a game as Genoa in the late start and 'cheated' to take Tunis. Tried to set it up as a merchant republic (grant mayor the county, then hand him the duchy) and he a stayed a normal, non-tradepost republic.

Genoa is a duke tier title still, you can do it with Venice which starts with kingdom title.

[Merkatz]

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

Genoa is a duke tier title still, you can do it with Venice which starts with kingdom title.

In the 1220 and 1337 starts Genoa is kingdom tier.

[WolfWhiteFire]

As with caringisdaring, I also play merchant republics all the time and love playing them.

1. Not really sure, honestly just ignore my vassals for the most part, trying to have as few as possible, could be merchant republic or normal republic, if merchant, then they will just build trade posts where they can, they can't have trade posts in the same place as you though.

2. I found that just having the king-tier title initially does little, because of only having 1 county and the fact that you could lose it any time I assume, I have found that getting more land helps, the bigger and more powerful you are the more people are willing to marry you, I have married byzantine empire princesses as well as others, it probably helps to have as many in demesne as possible, as well as that you will keep as vassals when someone else takes over.

3. This is where I can really help you, you do keep them, but here is how it works, if your merchant republic is a kingdom, kingdoms can't have kingdom vassals, so it will take those titles from you if you lose, you will be left a duke at best, dukes can't have duke vassals, so all you can have is counts, and the smaller holdings like cities and castles, but only in counties you directly control I have found, or at least, counties that won't be owned by the new leader, so probably anything but the capital. So you keep your duchy titles you control, county titles you control except capital, and smaller holdings in your counties, not much tbh. However, if you manage to make your merchant republic an empire, then things change. Empires CAN have kingdom vassals, so you will keep all your kingdom, duchy, and county titles. Kingdoms can have duchy vassals, so you can keep control of all of those, and at that point you can easily remain far more powerful than the leader, with them only getting empire titles, kingdom-tier vassals (so don't make those unless necessary), and the capital county, plus whatever they own themselves, though it is possible that if a vassal isn't de-jure yours, like a duchy outside of your many kingdom titles, they may get that, not entirely sure. That is my understanding anyway.

[Sir Hornet]

Nguyên văn bởi Merkatz:

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

Genoa is a duke tier title still, you can do it with Venice which starts with kingdom title.

In the 1220 and 1337 starts Genoa is kingdom tier.

yeah i just tried and realised it got patched out a few months ago only empires and feudal kingdoms can create merchant republics now, but venice used to be able to do it in the early start due to the kingdom rank so you just take genoa, pisa, ancona and amalfi and make them merchant republics and never run out of money

[Sir Hornet]

Nguyên văn bởi WolfWhiteFire:

As with caringisdaring, I also play merchant republics all the time and love playing them.

3. This is where I can really help you, you do keep them, but here is how it works, if your merchant republic is a kingdom, kingdoms can't have kingdom vassals, so it will take those titles from you if you lose, you will be left a duke at best, dukes can't have duke vassals, so all you can have is counts, and the smaller holdings like cities and castles, but only in counties you directly control I have found, or at least, counties that won't be owned by the new leader, so probably anything but the capital. So you keep your duchy titles you control, county titles you control except capital, and smaller holdings in your counties, not much tbh. However, if you manage to make your merchant republic an empire, then things change. Empires CAN have kingdom vassals, so you will keep all your kingdom, duchy, and county titles. Kingdoms can have duchy vassals, so you can keep control of all of those, and at that point you can easily remain far more powerful than the leader, with them only getting empire titles, kingdom-tier vassals (so don't make those unless necessary), and the capital county, plus whatever they own themselves, though it is possible that if a vassal isn't de-jure yours, like a duchy outside of your many kingdom titles, they may get that, not entirely sure. That is my understanding anyway.

yeah they patched it out , a few months back venice as a kingdom could have merchant republic vassals. a few years in the viking start you could be earing a couple hundred ducats

[WolfWhiteFire]

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

Nguyên văn bởi WolfWhiteFire:

As with caringisdaring, I also play merchant republics all the time and love playing them.

3. This is where I can really help you, you do keep them, but here is how it works, if your merchant republic is a kingdom, kingdoms can't have kingdom vassals, so it will take those titles from you if you lose, you will be left a duke at best, dukes can't have duke vassals, so all you can have is counts, and the smaller holdings like cities and castles, but only in counties you directly control I have found, or at least, counties that won't be owned by the new leader, so probably anything but the capital. So you keep your duchy titles you control, county titles you control except capital, and smaller holdings in your counties, not much tbh. However, if you manage to make your merchant republic an empire, then things change. Empires CAN have kingdom vassals, so you will keep all your kingdom, duchy, and county titles. Kingdoms can have duchy vassals, so you can keep control of all of those, and at that point you can easily remain far more powerful than the leader, with them only getting empire titles, kingdom-tier vassals (so don't make those unless necessary), and the capital county, plus whatever they own themselves, though it is possible that if a vassal isn't de-jure yours, like a duchy outside of your many kingdom titles, they may get that, not entirely sure. That is my understanding anyway.

yeah they patched it out , a few months back venice as a kingdom could have merchant republic vassals. a few years in the viking start you could be earing a couple hundred ducats

Did you mean to quote my response to 1? That is where I said no idea whether the vassals were merchant republics or not, this one I am just explaining how what titles/vassals you keep and lose is decided.

[Sir Hornet]

Nguyên văn bởi WolfWhiteFire:

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

yeah they patched it out , a few months back venice as a kingdom could have merchant republic vassals. a few years in the viking start you could be earing a couple hundred ducats

Did you mean to quote my response to 1? That is where I said no idea whether the vassals were merchant republics or not, this one I am just explaining how what titles/vassals you keep and lose is decided.

Both , It was once possible to have Merchants Republic vassals but only empire feudal/republic and Feudal kingdoms can do it now.

[bri]

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

Nguyên văn bởi WolfWhiteFire:

As with caringisdaring, I also play merchant republics all the time and love playing them.

3. This is where I can really help you, you do keep them, but here is how it works, if your merchant republic is a kingdom, kingdoms can't have kingdom vassals, so it will take those titles from you if you lose, you will be left a duke at best, dukes can't have duke vassals, so all you can have is counts, and the smaller holdings like cities and castles, but only in counties you directly control I have found, or at least, counties that won't be owned by the new leader, so probably anything but the capital. So you keep your duchy titles you control, county titles you control except capital, and smaller holdings in your counties, not much tbh. However, if you manage to make your merchant republic an empire, then things change. Empires CAN have kingdom vassals, so you will keep all your kingdom, duchy, and county titles. Kingdoms can have duchy vassals, so you can keep control of all of those, and at that point you can easily remain far more powerful than the leader, with them only getting empire titles, kingdom-tier vassals (so don't make those unless necessary), and the capital county, plus whatever they own themselves, though it is possible that if a vassal isn't de-jure yours, like a duchy outside of your many kingdom titles, they may get that, not entirely sure. That is my understanding anyway.

yeah they patched it out , a few months back venice as a kingdom could have merchant republic vassals. a few years in the viking start you could be earing a couple hundred ducats

They didn't patch it out, it was never there to begin with. I've been playing MRs since they were added to the game, you were never allowed to have a vassal MR.

[WolfWhiteFire]

Nguyên văn bởi bri:

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

yeah they patched it out , a few months back venice as a kingdom could have merchant republic vassals. a few years in the viking start you could be earing a couple hundred ducats

They didn't patch it out, it was never there to begin with. I've been playing MRs since they were added to the game, you were never allowed to have a vassal MR.

Perhaps a mod he used to use.

[CidDaBird]

I honestly don't believe that you can't have other MR's under you so I'll find out for myself tonight for you guys. For science.

[Zsrai]

Nguyên văn bởi caringisdaring:

I honestly don't believe that you can't have other MR's under you so I'll find out for myself tonight for you guys. For science.

Well you can't, so enjoy that experiment.

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Hornet:

Both , It was once possible to have Merchants Republic vassals but only empire feudal/republic and Feudal kingdoms can do it now.

It still is possible, just not as an MR yourself. Feudal, Theocratic, Iqta, etc can all have an MR vassal; you cannot have an MR vassal as an MR yourself though, since that tweaks out the inheritence IIRC. MR's are pretty touchy like that.