what is the point of having a retinue?

[Darkability]

How are retinues better than having mercs or normal levies? Maybe i'm missing something, but I can't figure out why you'd use them instead of mercs or normal levies.

[𝔜𝔲𝔢]

--> https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/1643169167154962351/

[Aethrys]

You get to pick what sort of units you want, in addition to having a permanent standing army. Once you've got a big enough retinue, you can use them tactically if you know a war is about to start by positioning them to fight freshly raised levies or siege holdings before levies can even be raised. Being already raised means their morale will be full while new levies won't.

Retinues are essentially long term investment mercenaries. They cost a lot in upkeep while forming but once they're fully reinforced their upkeep drops to negligible amounts. Mercs are usually an emergency "Oh crap I'm in way over my head and need a new stack NOW!" troop pool. They are expensive and should be a last resort.

[Darkability]

Originally posted by Aethrys:

You get to pick what sort of units you want

Why is this useful tho, is there any benefit to being able to pick? (unless you're one of the horse people).

Originally posted by Aethrys:

You get to pick what sort of units you want, in addition to having a permanent standing army. Once you've got a big enough retinue, you can use them tactically if you know a war is about to start by positioning them to fight freshly raised levies or siege holdings before levies can even be raised. Being already raised means their morale will be full while new levies won't.

Retinues are essentially long term investment mercenaries. They cost a lot in upkeep while forming but once they're fully reinforced their upkeep drops to negligible amounts. Mercs are usually an emergency "Oh crap I'm in way over my head and need a new stack NOW!" troop pool. They are expensive and should be a last resort.

Ah, okay, thanks,

[𝔜𝔲𝔢]

Originally posted by Darkability:

Why is this useful tho, is there any benefit to being able to pick? (unless you're one of the horse people).

It's useful as it allows you to aim for specific tactics in battle:
--> https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Combat_tactics

With levies it's a lot of hit-or-miss due to having a lot of different troops that won't allow for certain tactics or even lead to bad ones.

[al_x_ator2411]

Also, if you run out of money mercs turn against you while retinues just stop replenishing.

[Darkability]

Originally posted by Kiryan:

It's useful as it allows you to aim for specific tactics in battle:
--> https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Combat_tactics

With levies it's a lot of hit-or-miss due to having a lot of different troops that won't allow for certain tactics or even lead to bad ones.

So what tactics would you be aiming for, and why?

[WolfWhiteFire]

Originally posted by Darkability:

Originally posted by Kiryan:

It's useful as it allows you to aim for specific tactics in battle:
--> https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Combat_tactics

With levies it's a lot of hit-or-miss due to having a lot of different troops that won't allow for certain tactics or even lead to bad ones.

So what tactics would you be aiming for, and why?

Well, this thread is old but provides a lot of useful information about combat https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/combat-mechanics.664959/

and this spreadsheet goes into more detail about the specifics of tactics https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11UQ_k0ZIZbIoPx-CxtzFUNTqEcyFdrYn3pA4yPz-2m4/edit#gid=0

For what retinues to get, the defense retinue is widely considered to be the best generic retinue, though for cultural retinues the Scottish Schiltron retinue and the Italian Pike retinue are considered superior to defense retinues. You can choose different retinues and go for different tactics depending on your specific needs, for example those spearman-heavy retinues are great at winning battles, being capable of defeating armies several times their size, but aren't very good at actually killing a lot of the soldiers, so you may choose to focus on retinues and tactics better at maximizing enemy casualties.

Some important things to note though is that you should go for only one, maybe two retinue types max, if you have more than two unit types you have more different tactics your commanders may choose so they will choose the tactics you want less often, in addition you will usually want to keep all your retinues separate from your main army, or at least in their own flank.

You have three flanks in combat that fight somewhat separately, so if you put your retinues in a flank with levy troops then the commander will choose tactics from any of the units in that flank, reducing the likelihood of getting the tactic you want, while if you have your retinues in a flank separate from any levy troops, the tactics for that flank will only be chosen from the ones available to the units in your retinue.

[Oblivion]

Well first of all, mercenaries are expensive, and you shouldn't be relying on them.
And unless you are a big empire with 20k+ available retinue units, you shouldn't just rely on retinues.
They are extra troops that are available, and you can choose the units in them, so if you wanted you could make a small but deadly retinue out of all heavy infantry, pikemen, horse archers, etc, or you could make a huge retinue of generic light infanty, but either way having extra troops is always a good thing

[WolfWhiteFire]

Originally posted by Knights Hospitallers:

Well first of all, mercenaries are expensive, and you shouldn't be relying on them.
And unless you are a big empire with 20k+ available retinue units, you shouldn't just rely on retinues.
They are extra troops that are available, and you can choose the units in them, so if you wanted you could make a small but deadly retinue out of all heavy infantry, pikemen, horse archers, etc, or you could make a huge retinue of generic light infanty, but either way having extra troops is always a good thing

You don't need 20k retinue units, you can take on armies of more than 20k levy units with just 5k-7k retinue units, if you pick the right retinues and use them properly, you can take on even larger armies or get by with fewer units if you get commanders with the right traits and a high martial ability. I have done that against the Aztecs myself in the past, fighting stacks of 20k+ with only a defense retinue of less than 8k units, though if the enemy armies get large enough it does get kind of dicey and you probably won't be winning a 10k against 80k engagement.

[ShepherdOfCats]

Retinues also reinforce regardless of whether you're in your own territory or not, as long as you've got money (and sometimes prestige if it is a tribal retinue requiring prestige for maintenance).

[Oblivion]

Originally posted by WolfWhiteFire:

Originally posted by Knights Hospitallers:

And unless you are a big empire with 20k+ available retinue units, you shouldn't just rely on retinues.

You don't need 20k retinue units, you can take on armies of more than 20k levy units with just 5k-7k retinue units, if you pick the right retinues and use them properly, you can take on even larger armies or get by with fewer units if you get commanders with the right traits and a high martial ability. I have done that against the Aztecs myself in the past, fighting stacks of 20k+ with only a defense retinue of less than 8k units, though if the enemy armies get large enough it does get kind of dicey and you probably won't be winning a 10k against 80k engagement.

[kazaddum]

Originally posted by Darkability:

How are retinues better than having mercs or normal levies? Maybe i'm missing something, but I can't figure out why you'd use them instead of mercs or normal levies.

They are stronger (heres the list https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Retinues), cheaper in the long term and allow you to play to your cultural stregths more. Also they do not care if you're broke (unlike mercs) or if your vassals have beef with you (unlike levies).

Also they reinforce on any territorry (like mercs and unlike levies).

Hint: Their boni add up with religious boni. Can be a huge boon for pagans.

[★Jaw★]

Retinues are great, tbh. I use them to blitz into enemy territory, and attack what groups of troops I find before they could group up into an army larger than mine. Pretty good tool to have to balance the odds. For example;

Say you are playing as some independent Duke in Frisia, the Holy Roman Empire had just declared war on you. You have a stack of retinues on their border, about 2-4 thousand men(maybe more) and 15k troops of levies that are raised and are making way to a county to group up. The Holy Roman Empire fields about 40-50 thousand troops across their empire, but they are all spread out, giving you time to position your retinue in a way to wipe out a quarter or more or their army, while your levies are preparing for occupying HRE counties. While they are off chasing your retinue around, you are just snagging their holdings until you've whittled them down enough to chance a final battle. Bait them to attack you so that they have to cross a river into a hilly location. Even if they have numbers, your combat bonus should be enough to claim victory.

I myself primarily play as Vikings, I like to use my Retinue troops as raiders, strike at one county, pillage, and load them back onto the boats and sail away to the opposite side of the enemy kingdom, raid some more, so that their army is always out of place for my levy forces to storm over their territory.

Oh and if you have a big enemy, make note of the Kings personal holdings. You wipe out his personal levies, he will rely mostly on his vassals troops, putting a strain on their relationship. So even if you lose the war, he will have to deal with treachery later on.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Darkability:

How are retinues better than having mercs or normal levies? Maybe i'm missing something, but I can't figure out why you'd use them instead of mercs or normal levies.

Strange question. You can use them all at the same time, you don't need to choose between them.

[spamfilter32]

Originally posted by Michael:

Strange question. You can use them all at the same time, you don't need to choose between them.

Yes, Your Retinue is always raised, you can raise your personal and vassal levies any time you want, and nothing stops you from hiring mercs other then not having enough money or they are already raised by someone else.