Leader of reformed pagan religion

[RichardTheHorse]

I'm about to reform my pagan religion. Who should be the leader of it?

[galadon3]

Making yourself the Leader usually has the biggest benefits.

[Evilgenius]

It is mainly an RP choice, but being the leader yourself is the most powerful/benificial option.

[RichardTheHorse]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

It is mainly an RP choice, but being the leader yourself is the most powerful/benificial option.

Can making a priest the head of religion f*ck you up by excomunicating you if he doesn't like you?

[Evilgenius]

That is a possibility, if your religion allows excommunication. But it is pretty easy to keep a "pope" like character happy.

[corisai]

Originally posted by RichardTheHorse:

Can making a priest the head of religion f*ck you up by excomunicating you if he doesn't like you?

High priest as the head = Pope. So yes he will :)

Temporal is the best option if you're single empire of your religion (and strongest option overall). Hierocratic if not.

Autocephalous is a meh and autonomous is very bad (no GHW).

[RichardTheHorse]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by RichardTheHorse:

Can making a priest the head of religion f*ck you up by excomunicating you if he doesn't like you?

High priest as the head = Pope. So yes he will :)

Temporal is the best option if you're single empire of your religion (and strongest option overall). Hierocratic if not.

Autocephalous is a meh and autonomous is very bad (no GHW).

I presume there are downsides of temporal, since it's the most ppwerful?

[Evilgenius]

It has no real downside. Only autonomous has downside, no great holy wars. And heirocratic if you consider excommunication as a downside.

[Archi]

Temporal is quite bad actually, as you get no real benefits apart from a powerful artifact. You're getting rid of excommunication, asking for claims and proxying great holy wars, all of which you get as part of Hierocratic, with no real downside.

There is nothing better than sitting at 100% threat and joining a crusade for whole kingdom, claiming it for yourself easily. There is also nothing better than excommunicating whoever you want, allowing that guy to refuse imprisonment and revoking all of his titles after a revolt you were prepared for, with no consequences. Hierocratic is MUCH more powerful than temporal as long as you know how to make use of it, and all good players will tell you that.

Temporal is only good for roleplaying where you want to have a complete control over your religion.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Archi:

Temporal is quite bad actually, as you get no real benefits apart from a powerful artifact.

+2 prestige gain for entire dynasty (and maybe some gain of piety too).

And remember about new tribal retinue? (you can get 25-30k size of it quite early)

Who care about coalitions in CK2? Stack enough retinue & win wars fastly.

[Archi]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Archi:

Temporal is quite bad actually, as you get no real benefits apart from a powerful artifact.

+2 prestige gain for entire dynasty (and maybe some gain of piety too).

And remember about new tribal retinue?

Who care about coalitions in CK2? Stack enough retinue & win wan fastly.

I have +67 prestige and +10 piety per month, 80k retinues in my current playthrough. I'd never trade great holy wars proxying or excommunication for negligible buffs to prestige or another retinue.

Retinues won't help you when you're not able to occupy whole realm of your enemy fast enough, and with 6+ castles you won't be able to, especially since you fight vs whole world and you start at -40% warscore right away due to your vassals waging war at the same time. 100% threat is a bit different than 10% one, you need to occupy whole realm before you get dragged to -100%.

[Evilgenius]

Hierocratic is definitely better if all you want is map painting. But if you want to RP, or if you are rather new and want you realm to stay together being the head of your religion is good, especially because you get to decide when to crusade.

[RichardTheHorse]

Originally posted by Archi:

Temporal is quite bad actually, as you get no real benefits apart from a powerful artifact. You're getting rid of excommunication, asking for claims and proxying great holy wars, all of which you get as part of Hierocratic, with no real downside.

There is nothing better than sitting at 100% threat and joining a crusade for whole kingdom, claiming it for yourself easily. There is also nothing better than excommunicating whoever you want, allowing that guy to refuse imprisonment and revoking all of his titles after a revolt you were prepared for, with no consequences. Hierocratic is MUCH more powerful than temporal as long as you know how to make use of it, and all good players will tell you that.

Temporal is only good for roleplaying where you want to have a complete control over your religion.

With temporal you can not excomunocate others?

[Evilgenius]

You cannot, would be very OP.

Is there anything possitive about Autocephaly?

[RichardTheHorse]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

You cannot, would be very OP.

And you can not get land with great holy wars?

[Archi]

Originally posted by RichardTheHorse:

With temporal you can not excomunocate others?

You can't. I don't remember if reforming norse before DLC allowed you to do that, I'm pretty sure you could never excommunicate anybody, but even if you could, I'm 100% sure you can't with temporal on DLC, I checked.