Why is the fourth crusade against the byzantine empire not in this game?

[kinkerbel]

Feel like it should be in here, maybe as a one time event or as a regular crusade. Maybe it would be nice to have republics play a role in this event or crusade as that is what happened IRL where venice played a huge role.

Make it happen Paradox, this is an easy little DLC expansion maybe call it "the great schism" and add some other stuff about the concille of nicea etc.

[Mr_Faorry]

There's a bookmark just after the 4th crusade, use it if you care that much about seeing the fallout of the 4th crusade.
Making it an event that just pops up and ♥♥♥♥♥ the ERE wouldn't be fun, imagine the ERE doing very well and then suddenly that event appears and they go from the being one of the biggest powers in the game to everyones ♥♥♥♥♥, sounds pretty dumb. Unless you're saying they should be able to repel it, in which case that won't do for you since that wouldn't be historical.
What about the games where Catholic MA fails and all Europe goes Slavic or the schism is mended and everyone is Orthodox, should a crusade just appear out of no where with no supporters and magically ♥♥♥♥ the ERE? Although, I doubt you'd let the game continue if something like that happened since that isn't historical either.

This is a game where Carloman gets all his brothers land and creates Francia, where crusades are called for Mongolia, where the Aztecs take over the world and now where China can just march in and shatter any Empire merely by asking nicely, it really doesn't matter if historical event X or Y doesn't happen because chances are the world state of the game wouldn't support that happening and having it happen would be more immersion breaking than if it didn't.

[pplr1]

4th Crusade didn't start out against the Byzantine Empire.

That somehow happened once it was assembled and arguably some conspiracy minded folks talked the Crusade's leaders into some unexpected detours that ended becoming the main thing the Crusade did.

[Dialask]

Eh, get the chinese to invade byzantine, and watch the splosions happen. Most satisfying sight ever. 10/10 beats 4th crusade hands down.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by Dialask:

Eh, get the chinese to invade byzantine, and watch the splosions happen. Most satisfying sight ever. 10/10 beats 4th crusade hands down.

i used the chinese to shatter the abbasids, been considering having them hit the byzantines.

very helpful as the shia ruler of abbysinian empire

[Dialask]

It's helpful once you are on the road to restoring the Persian empire as well. I can't count the times the byzantines and their underlings tried to holy war Azerbaijan away from me. Suffice to say, I'm the biggest dog in the yard now.

[kinkerbel]

Originally posted by Mr Faorry:

There's a bookmark just after the 4th crusade, use it if you care that much about seeing the fallout of the 4th crusade.
Making it an event that just pops up and ♥♥♥♥♥ the ERE wouldn't be fun, imagine the ERE doing very well and then suddenly that event appears and they go from the being one of the biggest powers in the game to everyones ♥♥♥♥♥, sounds pretty dumb. Unless you're saying they should be able to repel it, in which case that won't do for you since that wouldn't be historical.
What about the games where Catholic MA fails and all Europe goes Slavic or the schism is mended and everyone is Orthodox, should a crusade just appear out of no where with no supporters and magically ♥♥♥♥ the ERE? Although, I doubt you'd let the game continue if something like that happened since that isn't historical either.

This is a game where Carloman gets all his brothers land and creates Francia, where crusades are called for Mongolia, where the Aztecs take over the world and now where China can just march in and shatter any Empire merely by asking nicely, it really doesn't matter if historical event X or Y doesn't happen because chances are the world state of the game wouldn't support that happening and having it happen would be more immersion breaking than if it didn't.

Hehe well the game is called "crusader kings" and of course the event should only trigger when for example:
X Constantinople is Orthodox
X Byzantine empire exists
X Schism had not been mended
X One of the great republics joins the crusade
X 4th Crusade is being called
That is something that can easily be programmed to be honest.

I think the crusade shouldnt result in the full conquest of the byzantines, would rather opt for either:
- 5 years income being paid to biggest contributer in crusade
- conquest of consantinopel and a couple of other counties > give byzantines afterwards an event to reconquer it as happened IRL
- Put a different emperor on the throne as happened IRL

In most games i played the byzantines are a pretty strong powerhouse and they should be able to defend a crusade.

As for the game being a mix between fantasy and history, that is true. The fun factor plays an important role. I feel like this feature would add in a lot of fun and as a bonus would also be somewhat historical.

[Meewec]

the thing is, the 4th crusade wasn't a crusade for the byzantine empire. it was basically one long string of greedy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that resulted in the sacking of a christian city

[pplr1]

Originally posted by Meewec:

the thing is, the 4th crusade wasn't a crusade for the byzantine empire. it was basically one long string of greedy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that resulted in the sacking of a christian city

Correct according to my understanding.

It was supposed to go to the Holy Lands but never even made it there.

[salatrin]

quote=pplr1;1620600279668033735]

Originally posted by Meewec:

the thing is, the 4th crusade wasn't a crusade for the byzantine empire. it was basically one long string of greedy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that resulted in the sacking of a christian city

Correct according to my understanding.

It was supposed to go to the Holy Lands but never even made it there. [/quote]

Yes, the crusaders were supposed to meet up in Venice, then from there go down and conquer the Holy land by going through Egypt first. In Venice though, Prince Alexios, the Venetians and the leaders of the Crusaders entered into a pact to help Alexios restore his deposed father back to the throne of the Byzantine Empire and by doing so, the crusaders would then gain additional financial and military support from the Byzantines to help in their crusade against Jerusalem.

Shortly after completing that and Alexios was Crowned co-emperor, he ended up getting deposed himself after an uprising in the City and the Crusaders realizing that they would no longer get the support and aid from Alexios as promised decided to just say screw it and sacked Constantinople themselves along with the Venetians and set up the Latin Empire while also taking some of the Byzantines lands for themselves.

[kinkerbel]

Yeah you can write several large books about the fourth crusade. It is true that the pope did'nt want this to happen and even excommunicated the crusaders for going after the byzantines. On the other hand Frederick Barbarossa and Venice were already pushing the pope for a crusade against the byzantines during the third crusade. So in that sense it is'nt really a suprise things turned out the way they did during the 4th crusade. I honestly do not believe it was all one big "mistake".

Venice build the fleet for the 4th crusade and they did not recieve enough payment by the crusaders. Venice needed a way to be compensated, which lead to them pushing their agenda against the byzantine empire, who was one of their major trading rivals.

Finally what "Salatrin"brought forth was also a big part of it.

[OldMemes.biz]

The "Latin Empire" bookmark deals with the immediate aftermath of the Fourth Crusade. If you like, you can go back a few years and manually do it yourself, I do believe the Latin Empire is a title you can create on your own, not needing the bookmark. It may not be an actual Crusade dynamic, but you can fabricate or otherwise gain claims on the required territory and carve it out.

[kinkerbel]

Originally posted by MS-DOS 6.22:

The "Latin Empire" bookmark deals with the immediate aftermath of the Fourth Crusade. If you like, you can go back a few years and manually do it yourself, I do believe the Latin Empire is a title you can create on your own, not needing the bookmark. It may not be an actual Crusade dynamic, but you can fabricate or otherwise gain claims on the required territory and carve it out.

Hmm i'll try that out thanks :)