A question relating to Norse pagan 769 start - Harald Wartooth

[Droolcup]

I decided to start out as Harald Wartooth, and, after several attempts, realized that I was more or less forced to attack Sigurdr Ring right at the beginning to stand any chance (later on he becomes untouchable). Well, I succeeded in doing so, and now find myself in 779 after having united all of mainland Norway and subjugated Sigurdr. However, I cannot yet reform my religion do to having only 41% MA. I have the option of waiting until 793 after which I can set out to raid Ireland to gain MA. Another option is to invest in shipbuilding now (I have just enough tech points) to build a shipyard in my capital, and set out to raid Ireland now already. Any advice or thoughts would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Why not push east through Finland and Russia? County conquests give 1% MA each and more land too. Other Pagans are valid targets.

[Droolcup]

Thanks for your reply, but I cannot attack other pagan's due to me not having reformed the religion I believe (I certainly cannot attack, I just tried, and I used my once in a lifetime CB against Sigurdr).

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Other faiths can be attack with individual county conquests, you cannot target other Germanic Pagans but Slavic and other pagans are fair game. You cannot use holy wars till you reform though. If you took sweden you prbably have the county of Aland (its between sweden and finland, small island with two straits) and thus can go into Southern finland that way.

[AsuraTheDrunk]

If im looking to reform germanic I just run rampant on the suomenusko for those last few MA points, you can conquest them, just make sure to take the counties that open up other lands or you'll have to take trucebreaker.

[Yasha]

Reforming paganism takes a good bit of strategy.

See http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Pagans, especially the section about Germanics and Reformation, to learn more about your options.

To reform, you MUST occupy at least three of the five holy sites. It sounds like you have Uppland (in Sweden) and Naumadal (in Norway), but you need one more. The easiest is Sjaelland (in Denmark). The other two sites are Zeeland (islands on the NW European coast) and Braunschweig (NW Europe inland). Each holy site gives you 10% MA, and all five gives you the automatic ability to reform, regardless of MA.

Most Scandanavian rulers tend to go for the three Scandanavia sites, then accumulate MA for the rest. A complete list of all MA sources can be found here:
http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Moral_authority . Not all apply to pagans, of course. The page may also be out of date regarding durations. Some entries listed as "20 years" may now be "10 years."

My personal strategy, which was successful, was to unify Norway, Sweden and Denmark under my rule, including the three Scandanavian holy sites, and use MA for the remaining 40%. I built a few temples, conquered a few more counties, and made a final push by sending out three simultaneous longship-born raiding expeditions to every weak county with temples or churches on the Baltic Coast, Russian rivers and in the British Isles (especially Ireland). It became "the three years of the flaming churches". I didn't care about loot per se - I was seeking to maximize the amount of temples that my forces looted during a short period.

I waited until I got longships (early 790s) rather than wasting precious tech points purchasing something that I could get for free fairly soon.

Incidentally, as a norse pagan, reformed or not, you have a "conquest" casus belli (CB) available against any coastal county, navigable river county, or any county on your border. Once fortifications along a river reach a certain state, the river ceases to be freely navigable. That tends to happen in the 900s to 1000s AD.

[Exothermically Eclectic]

Originally posted by Yasha:

I waited until I got longships (early 790s) rather than wasting precious tech points purchasing something that I could get for free fairly soon.

"Wasting". Lol. You'd actually get a better return on investment putting a level or two in before the event, since it adds a free level on top of whatever you already have, and the higher the level it already is the more points that's worth.

[Yasha]

Interesting Yriel. I was unaware of that. You might consider updating the CK2 wiki with that little tidbit (at http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Raiding - in the "strategies" section). If I'd known, I would have done what you suggest!

[Exothermically Eclectic]

Eh. Couldn't be bothered.
One thing to note, though, while you get an extra level on existing shipmaking tech, you don't get an extra level on the shipmaker building itself. It's a shame, but the amount of gold and prestige you can pull in from raiding early means it's probably worth building if you get the tech as soon as you can with the scholarship focus.

[Droolcup]

Thanks for all your replies! I ended it following the suggested solution of taking over nearby counties until I reached 48% MA. I actually failed a couple despite having lots of vassals causing me to raid Ireland after the dawn of the Viking age. Unfortunately, my ruler died in the process, and that, coupled with a bit of failed micromanagement on my part, resulted in a divided empire. It was back to scratch, and I have decided to start over in what will this time be a non-ironman game. This time, there will be no failure for the Danish ambition over taking over Scandinavia and, ultimately, most of Europe!

[EmotionallyBroken]

Originally posted by Yriel:

Originally posted by Yasha:

I waited until I got longships (early 790s) rather than wasting precious tech points purchasing something that I could get for free fairly soon.

"Wasting". Lol. You'd actually get a better return on investment putting a level or two in before the event, since it adds a free level on top of whatever you already have, and the higher the level it already is the more points that's worth.

Do you by chance have large loans to pay off?