Cities, Castles or Temples?

[Scottx125]

So my general rule of thumb is 1 temple, then a balance of cities and castles, or if you can't balance it have 1 more castle than cities for the troop limit increase, but also retinue buildings. Is that optimal or is there a better way?

[X-the Unknown]

Depends on your land grabs. Like I only have one province and 4 vassal boxes. I need more men to grab land so I go for more castles. You don't have to keep a "balance" but work it so you always have lots of troops over anything else. I'm happy with one bishphoric and one city sometimes and otherrs I want the whole province to be castles. Once I start taking lands then the new lands vassals I'll give more to cities. Bisphorics are mainly for my heirs to get rid of their constant nagging. I like the troops the Bisphorics give but they don't give enough to make them worth my while and I can geta heck of a lot more having a castle there.

In a recent game I've taken over the whole province vassals and getting nearly 4k men as opposed to only a few. I'd rather take the money hit than lose all those men that I need for my upcoming war. When you think about it, the hit to economy doesn't hurt as much as buying and the upkeep on mercenaries. Comes out about the same depending on the length of the war. Plus, I have no vassals to revolt against me or try to assassinate me. :)

[The Cure]

One of each unless there's only two holdings. Then all castles for troops, cities for money or temples for a balance. I usually do castles if I'm feudal or a MR, cities for Merchant Republic vassals and churches for theocratic vassals.

[Quaade]

1 castle, 1 temple, all the rest cities.

[Liberty Prime]

1 castle, 1 temple, the rest cities. Except for the capital county which I will add in castles to hold myself when I have higher demense characters and let a vassal hold it if not.

[Meyro]

My most common rule as feudal is:
* Capital with two cities for universities, rest castles (castles held by me for capital county levy bonus).
* Others as many cities as I can get for gold and technology spread
* If playing very small realm long into game then I prefer capital with 5 castles.
* If I play very large realm then I prefer cities also in capital for gold (retinues are better than levies) and study technology mission.
* If Merchant republic then as many cities as possible and fights wars with mercenaries and retinues. (trade post provide a lot retinues so no need for castles)

[Quaade]

I do not understand why you would add even 1 castle? The barony vassal don't earn very much, so will end up givin very few troops. Rather build castles in vassals demenses...

Cities give money, money can upgrade buildings and buy retinues.

[Newton's Flaming Laser Sword]

In my capital and it's respective duchy I tend to maximize the amount of castles because you get a significant 'capital duchy' multiplier. Depending on the distance between my personal holdings and my vassal's coastline holdings, I opt for either cities (good for a vassal merchant republic) or castles, so that I needn't constantly rush my troops over to save their holdings from raiding. I personally almost never create temples since they give fewer, but stronger troops and in my experience, it's generally quantity over quality. AFAIK, a temple would beat a tribe but not a castle. It's a different story income-wise if you have the pope as your vassal of course, but the profit you'd be making from running temples then are also rather gamey.

[Meyro]

Originally posted by Quaade:

I do not understand why you would add even 1 castle? The barony vassal don't earn very much, so will end up givin very few troops. Rather build castles in vassals demenses...

I build and keep castles in my capital because I get +50% levy sizes bonus for the capital province. There is also +25% bonus for any castle in capital duchy. But you have to personally own baron castles in the capital for the bonus.

If realm is larger then I prefer demesne provinces to spread technology for my vassals instead of maximising demesne troops from capital area. Specially I like to own a province next to any merchant republic that I create. MR benefits a lot from increased trade technology.

Coastal cities are specially good for income because they get two buildings that increase base income. Also coastal provinces should have trade post giving a nice bonus to income. (If no MR is close enough you should setup one asap)

Personally I don't see any practical reason for temples because either I want maximum feudal levies or gold and techonology. Temple is horrible compromise. Only advantage from temples is piety generation but piety isn't worth generating (except in some special situation).

[Scottx125]

From your advise I got alot of mixed messages, more cities or more castles. But generally the concensus is castles in capital then cities everywhere else and no temples. Now considering every province needs 1 temple (as far as I know, but also they have 1 in them by default). So, balancing it seems to be the best option.

[Meyro]

Originally posted by Scottx125:

From your advise I got alot of mixed messages, more cities or more castles. But generally the concensus is castles in capital then cities everywhere else and no temples. Now considering every province needs 1 temple (as far as I know, but also they have 1 in them by default). So, balancing it seems to be the best option.

Mixed answer is because the optimal holding setup depends on realm size you have, size of your close enemies and your short and long term game plan. But basic idea is to use capital for feudal levies if you need them. If you can wait a bit for science and bigger realm to give you descent number of retinues then cities are the best choice even in capital. But I suspect most common start situation includes fairly small realm making demesne levies vital source of military power.

But outside capital it is very unlikely that building more castle holdings is the best because you are anyway better of giving them to a new vassal baron. The new vassal baron doesn't provide enough troops to be better than science and gold advantage city provides.

[KG]

The answer depends on a lot of variables. Start date, government type, coastal county or not, silk road or not, quantity of retinues you can raise...