Homosexual trait

[rklane]

The ♥♥♥♥ rate seems to be way to high. Paradox needs to dial it down. And screw Kinsey and his 10 percent estimate it's more like 3... Every heir I've had lately in my ironman game has sugar in his tank. Anyone else ♥♥♥♥♥♥ about this?

[rklane]

Originally posted by God Emperor Trump:

Originally posted by Kraek:

There are surprisingly many gay people in the world....

Well i mean sure when you consider that 1% of 7 billion people is still a ♥♥♥♥ ton of people but the game has them appearing at extrodanary rates in my opinion.

That'd be 70,000,000 :P Agreed way over represented in game. Big league.

[Xcorps]

Originally posted by Myth:

openly homosexual lieges wouldnt be tolerated in Feudal Europe...and would be immediately Excommunicated upon discovery. I guess Paradox didnt want to go down that road tho

That's not even true.

Ferendae sententiae excommunications for homosexuality did not exist until 1179 and applied only to the laity. Prior to the 12th century male homosexuality was dealt with like any other sin. Penance. During the Inquisition homosexuals were not prosecuted unless they challenged the Church's stance on homosexuality.

After the 13th Century, various countries imposed harsh physical punishments such as castration, dismemberment, burning, and property confiscation.

[al_x_ator2411]

I have no opinion about the expel the Jewry mechanic because I seldom use it (I like to be able to borrow money again and again).

But the whole uproar about the huge number of gay characters is just confirmation bias in my opinion. Like I said, I am gay and I'm actively seacrhing for high-tier gay characters in the game and I'm having great difficulty locating any.

And the screenshot with the little boy and the old man seems like a bug to me. The game treats all people below 16 (wether 0 or 15) as babies.



Having said that, I do believe that the homosexual trait (and several other traits) are treated in a very uninspiring and bland way. They just either add or subtract numbers to some skills or values.

A king-father (expecially a cruel or zealous one) should have options to punish or forgive his kids (gay boys, slutty girls etc) and their lovers like he is able to imprison an unfaithful wife.

It shouldn't be just up to the player to find ways to punish offenders just for RP reasons.
Rivalries can only do so much. They are just reminders of who you should murder but you can just ignore your rivals and nothing happens.

[Cobretti]

I do feel it is a bit high but I don't think it impacts gameplay that much. Key thing is they can still breed but perhaps being norse and having 3 concubines has reduced this potential issue for me.

It's definitely not high up on my list of traits I really do not want my leader/heir to have.....interesting special events hehe.

[Montana]

I was just playing as the emperor of Austria, and he was homosexual. He had 13 children. And was lusty. Not the first time I've had this happen.

[m.dm]

Well first of all i have not noticed an overrepresentaion of homosexuals. I have played 300 hours and had two heirs become gay but both still produced lots of kids. Also there were plenty of gay monarchs in medieval Europe in RL. I suggest the OP has just been unlucky.


Got to remember that until the monotheistic religions came to the for in Europe in the early dark ages homosexuality or bisexuality was not seen as a sin amongst Roman or Greek civilisations.

[LastOfTheCantiaci]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Originally posted by Myth:

openly homosexual lieges wouldnt be tolerated in Feudal Europe...and would be immediately Excommunicated upon discovery. I guess Paradox didnt want to go down that road tho

Edward II of England was pretty blatant about his relationships, and he was only overthrown because he repeatedly betrayed his wife (and was generally a dismal failure of a king overall).

Edward II was disliked by the people of England for his weak leadership, which would have seemed particularly puny in stark comparison to the prior, mighty, rule of Longshanks. But, it was his wife, Isabella, that brought about his ultimate downfall. Arranging a foreign army to invade and overthrow your husband and King, is not a decision made lightly. That was obviously an act of treason - but, notably, one that was not disliked by the people, who were generally happy to see the back of Edward II.

And, why did she resort to such an extreme measure? Many reasons. A principal reason being the fact Edward spent more hours within the bed chambers of men (mainly Gaveston), than visiting his own wife in hers. Furthermore, numerous historians speak of the 'hot poker' used to kill the King - why do you think a hot poker up the anus ,would be used against such a man? If the rumours hold any truth, such an act would have been symbolic.

Whether you like it or not, homosexuality would certainly not have been seen as 'okay' during this period. Homosexuality was not even decriminalised in the UK until 1967, for Christ sake.

But anyway, are Paradox games always historically accurate? No, but, they'e thoroughly enjoyable regardless of the fact, and having a higher percentage of homosexuals than is feasible doesn't take anything away from how great CKII is.

Just don't pass off the politically correct alterations to reality as true-to-life - they are not.

[Valentine Michael Smith]

Originally posted by rklane:

Originally posted by God Emperor Trump:

How was that a joke? Lol where is the punchline? All you said was you can execute people in the game... that is a fact not a joke. But ok

I got the joke.

i get it. its just not funny.

[restarter]

i bet if you asked people in 1965 whether or not they were gay, bi, etc... you'd get far lower numbers than you do today. my personaly opinion is that no survey is going to accurately display a number even close to the real population of gay, bi, queer, as there are still plenty of folks who are in the closet and even in denial themselves let alone being truthful on a survey.

anectodal eviendnce by my experience would throw the number much higher than 1% or even the standard 4%, and this is living in a conservative county in California.

and i mean, aren't we all a little gay? cmon straight guys, do you want to watch porn where the man has a small unimpressive penis or do you want to see goliath in all his might and splendor

[Zefiro]

The fact that nowdays in some circles being gay has become fashonable doesnt change statistics, and has nothing to do with the time period the game covers.
Regardless what is the situation right now doesnt matter, but it would make the game more interesting adding more options and events about those traits.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by LastOfTheCantiaci:

And, why did she resort to such an extreme measure? Many reasons.

What do you think I meant by 'repeatedly betrayed his wife'? She was angry because he kept cheating on her and politically crossing her, and she eventually got her revenge. Also, my point was that his vassals tolerated his behavior, and it was his wife who did him in.

Whether you like it or not, homosexuality would certainly not have been seen as 'okay' during this period. Homosexuality was not even decriminalised in the UK until 1967, for Christ sake.

Historically speaking, Edward II wouldn't have been considered a homosexual in the first place. A ruler who slept with other men wasn't considered gay as long as he was married and produced children. As long as they produced an heir and treated their vassals properly, their 'indulgences' were ignored. Louis XIII is an excellent example.

[Donathan Cheadledge]

I've never been in a position where I've had to play as gay, ever.

huh.

[Optimus Princeps]

Originally posted by al_x_ator2411:

I have no opinion about the expel the Jewry mechanic because I seldom use it (I like to be able to borrow money again and again).

But the whole uproar about the huge number of gay characters is just confirmation bias in my opinion. Like I said, I am gay and I'm actively seacrhing for high-tier gay characters in the game and I'm having great difficulty locating any.

And the screenshot with the little boy and the old man seems like a bug to me. The game treats all people below 16 (wether 0 or 15) as babies.



Having said that, I do believe that the homosexual trait (and several other traits) are treated in a very uninspiring and bland way. They just either add or subtract numbers to some skills or values.

A king-father (expecially a cruel or zealous one) should have options to punish or forgive his kids (gay boys, slutty girls etc) and their lovers like he is able to imprison an unfaithful wife.

It shouldn't be just up to the player to find ways to punish offenders just for RP reasons.
Rivalries can only do so much. They are just reminders of who you should murder but you can just ignore your rivals and nothing happens.

Bro its a bug that seems to happen quite often, there is another event as a kid where you have a dream and one of the options to pick is about a man and you gain the homosexual trait. My guess is since there are 3 options one being turn gay it causes the AI to choose this often. Also you can send your son to be tutored by another homosexual which has chance to turn them gay (God knows why!?) I assume he gets molested or something by the guardian lmao..

[Optimus Princeps]

Originally posted by Meowlicus:

i bet if you asked people in 1965 whether or not they were gay, bi, etc... you'd get far lower numbers than you do today. my personaly opinion is that no survey is going to accurately display a number even close to the real population of gay, bi, queer, as there are still plenty of folks who are in the closet and even in denial themselves let alone being truthful on a survey.

anectodal eviendnce by my experience would throw the number much higher than 1% or even the standard 4%, and this is living in a conservative county in California.

and i mean, aren't we all a little gay? cmon straight guys, do you want to watch porn where the man has a small unimpressive penis or do you want to see goliath in all his might and splendor

The 4% that gets used is including all gays, lesbians, bisexuals and trans people. It is only like 1.7% homosexual men and women in the USA (Not bisexual or trans)

A conservative county in California lmaoooo now thats a good laugh :D

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by God Emperor Trump:

A conservative county in California lmaoooo now thats a good laugh :D

There's more to Cali than just the bay area, you know. The entire northerneastern part of the state is solid red.