How do you maintain a large empire?

[Paragon]

Title. I've had a run of really good heirs and expanded across all of europe. Thing is, now i'm brushing my vassal limit (at 60 no less) even with imperial administration, no viceroyalties, and kingdoms handed out. The only thing keeping my empire together now is the uncanny skills of my current ruler, who's death I fear might lead to turmoil within my realm. My heir is actually really good, but not demonspawn genius + strong really good.

Factions are not really a problem as of yet, but are able to muster about 35% of my own force at best, not including mercs. I can't possibly raise and organize my vassal levies with any ease if they do rebel, and that accounts for over 50% of my troops, so keeping them from getting to the 80% cutoff is priority. My current ruler has very good martial and diplomacy skill, so once he dies factions could very well pose a much more serious threat.

I want to keep most of my home empire divided into their de-jure duchies, and the duchies of jerusalem were handed out to holy orders, so I don't want to place them under a king and possibly lose them if he rebels. The duchies at home give more money and more troops, and allows me tighter control of power within my immediate empire.

What can I do to ensure the stability of my glorious empire? I was thinking if things go sour I would just bite the bullet and destroy my titles to release them so a faction dosen't steamroll me.

TLDR: Reaching vassal limit, factions might be a problem later, don't want to sacrifice home empire/kingdom integrity for more vassal slots if possible. Have transfered vassalages.

[NinoAllen]

Just create vassal kings and you'll be fine, if yorr worried about money, just creatr a merchant repulic or 2 and they will give you loads of cash.

if i was you i would RP this and hope for the empire to fall from my grasp, only to battle and regain it later being unstoppable gets boring.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Jae:

Just create vassal kings and you'll be fine, if yorr worried about money, just creatr a merchant repulic or 2 and they will give you loads of cash.

if i was you i would RP this and hope for the empire to fall from my grasp, only to battle and regain it later being unstoppable gets boring.

I actually have created 3 merchant kingdoms, and conquered venice.

Most of my vassals ARE alreadly kings.

[That Bird DK]

what i learned from my game is that if you have any reason to have duke tier vassals do it on the smallest kingdoms posseble, best would be that 1 duchy made up the whole kingdom and give that to holy orders.
other then that i would need a screenshot to really see how many are where.

[Yaldabaoth]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Originally posted by Jae:

Just create vassal kings and you'll be fine, if yorr worried about money, just creatr a merchant repulic or 2 and they will give you loads of cash.

if i was you i would RP this and hope for the empire to fall from my grasp, only to battle and regain it later being unstoppable gets boring.

I actually have created 3 merchant kingdoms, and conquered venice.

Most of my vassals ARE alreadly kings.

Then give those vassals more kingdoms.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Yaldabaoth:

Originally posted by Paragon:

I actually have created 3 merchant kingdoms, and conquered venice.

Most of my vassals ARE alreadly kings.

Then give those vassals more kingdoms.

Everythings alreadly given out, so I can't reform things without making a lot of people pissy (even vassal retractions piss off the guy who had them a good bit). As said earlier, I can't afford more faction members.

The kingdoms are alreadly larger than I would like. They were granted as de-jure terratories, but with the AI doing its own thing I would not be surprised to find them as bordergore by now.

How do revolt CBs work? If I can't smack down the revolt in time, does warscore tick to their favor or mine? I mostly fear a revolt I can't easily crush and having it cripple my empire.

[Porco Malo]

high centralization + max retinues + more than one holdings in capital county to gain more boost from marshal. should give you enough troops to crush any size revolts.

[Throwitinthecooker]

Max retinues and quality retinues are what you want as an empire for all offensive based wars and then you can use your levies freely to put down rebellions and defend from invaders, raiders, ect. And you should be def upgrading your capital and all important holding in general as well as stated above. Other than that you just need to use your tech and laws to your advantage to boost your vassal limits and if you have certain troublesome vassals you may want them to push there factions demands and revolt that way you have a good reason to arrest them, strip them of their titles and land, and reorganize the internal structure of your empire. Or maybe try using intrigue focus to spy on them and do the same thing without the open rebellion if you fear the conflict that much but either way if you get rid of a few problem vassals and do a little restructuring of land and titles internally that may do the trick enough to keep everyone happy and lead to a smoother succession when the current ruler kicks the bucket. If you are worried about the succession try to get as much done as you can with the current ruler starting now before he dies especially if council members owe favors and laws need changing. Get your councilors out on missions to upgrade your tech that should also unlcok more laws that can boost your vassal and demesne limit if you haven't already.

[Remosu37]

Are you hanging on to lower level vassals within kingdoms that you handed out? Sometimes you give a kingdom to a vassal, but you still hold vassalage rights to a Duke or a few counts within that kingdom.

This can cause the dual problem that the vassal hates you for meddling with his territory, while pushing your vassal count above the limits.

Use the "Transfer Vassal" function to transfer control of those counties or dutchies to the right kings. If you don't face immediate revolt risk, you can probably hold off till your son comes to the throne, since it gives a pretty hearty gratitude loyalty bonus when you do it, so it'd a good way to ingratiate yourself with a potential internal enemy.

You can avoid this by granting higher titles using the "include lower titles" checkbook when giving duke and royal vassal titles. I try to keep counties distribute so as much as possible , no lord has direct ownership of more than 1 or 2 counties. BUT it's good to keep dukes and kings happy, with proper control of the whole of their duchies and kingdoms via vassalage. The opinion penalty alone for that us painful, and in really large empires, the vassal limit all but forces you to delegate.

[Zsrai]

You say you want to keep most of your home empire's duchies as direct vassals, but since you're getting so big that may not be an option anymore. Or maybe create some grand duke vassals in your home empire at the least. Once you blob that big (you should post a screen shot too), your only real options are to start granting out multiple kingdoms to a single vassal. If you are bumping up against 60 vassals and you say MOST of your vassals are kings, then I wonder how much of the world you have left to actually conquer.

[Porco Malo]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

If you are bumping up against 60 vassals and you say MOST of your vassals are kings, then I wonder how much of the world you have left to actually conquer.

i've been wondering that too..

[Paragon]

I make sure to check why anyone who hates me does hate me. Usually because they're all whiny about something I can't do anything about, or envious or ambitious, or laws. With most of them being kings, bribes are mostly a no-go due to them being stupidly expensive.

I've pretty much gotten the entire world in the last 4 generations, but I want to try and hold as much of it as I can, for as long as I can. Sap them dry of their prestiege and taxes to make my home empire an economic and technological powerhouse, then revoke the kingdom and watch the area rip itself apart as a dozen dukes duke (hue hue) it out. Maybe later on reconquer the savages too?

I don't really have much intrest in reforming the Roman empire, should I? All I really need is africa and parts of arabia to do so. If I am to do so I should very soon, or upon succession I may lose my last chance.

My great empire spans across all of west europe to the edges of Pannonia (excluding the wendish empire, they're a nice buffer from the vikings and nomads) and the byzantine empire. I also own Hispania and the kingdom of jerusalem, plus a few additions in its immediate area.

[Quaade]

transfer vassalige, or what it's called.. that's always a good idea

[Mentos]

Keep a close eye on title claimants.

Consolidate your power by building and keeping for yourself non county level titles. This keeps you personal army condensed into a smaller location and also reduces the number of subcounty vassals you have to look after.

I personally take the above concept even further by holding NO duchy titles. I repeat NO duchy titles once I am King. As soon as I have an heir (for primogeniture only) I grant him a county, and give him the duchy my capital sits in. I then pass control of all my subcounty vassals to him as well.

Keep a large sum of coin in reserve. This is your warchest, which you should always have on hand to pay not only your personal army but afford mercenaries when you can't afford to lose. Such as against a major revolt. Or if you are using my above suggestions, to fund your heir if another duke is attacking him.

Avoid Empires. Kings are a pain in the ass to control. Stay small. If you do manage to stabilize a large empire, the game will get super boring because no one will pose a threat to you.

[jfoytek]

Marry your kings as long as you have a non aggression pact with your largest kingdom vassals your fine the ones you dont have a non aggression pact with put them on your council....

And its always best to have as small a number of vassals as possible... if you have a bunch of dukes transfer them to kings... if you get another kingdom consider instead of creating a new king giving it to an existing king....

Utilize your Chancellor, to improve relations.... bribe to increase opinion... give away honorary titles to improve opinion.

But the most important thing once you have become a blob is prioritize Diplomacy and Fertility...

Lots of kids = lots of non aggresion pacts!

Diplomacy = High opinion... Also be sure to give your heir as many ways to earn prestige as possible as soon as possible... Honorary title, a Commander, Council member....

His Prestige + His Diplomacy will ensure people like him thus they will not rebel against him.

[jfoytek]

Okay step bye step walk thru with Pictures!

First Picture my Current blob....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894876963

Second Picture my Faction's or lack there of....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894876977

Third Picture shows that my Ruler is Nothing to brag about... check out his
poor Stat's only 5 in Diplomacy???

Check out his has Pact's with his Vassal kings Africa and France.

Also check out his personal Levy and Retinue: Note This is as small as my army has been in a while, because he isnt the best ruler, and he still hasnt utilized all of his retinue points there are still more to use.... But the current army is plenty to squash any rebellion.....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894877010

Now see how my Blob is divided between as few kings (6 Holding 14 Kingdoms) as possible.

King France/Brittany/Aquitaine
King Africa/Egypt (Soon Jerusalem)
King Andulusia/Aragon/Castille/Leon/Portugal
King Italy / Germany (Soon Bavaria/ Sicily)
King Burgundy/Middle France (Soon Frisia)
King Austurias (Aquired via vassalization) Austurias was forced out of Iberia and went to England... Smaller king then I would like....but he will eventually be the king of England and Ireland too....

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894876992


And this picture shows how you develop a Large personal Levy:
Note my Capital County of Rome has 5 Castle's which my Marshal is buffing.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=894877035