Primogeniture

[Marcus]

Always had Elective as succession but wanna give primo a go just checking requirements!

On Wiki it says "Late Feudal Administration with Conclave" which I have but do I need to have Full Council Authority?

Thanks

[Random]

nope.

Absolute control = no voting required to put in late feudal administration.

For conclave all you need is legalism 3 and a yes vote on late fuedal admin, and you got primo.

(well obviously you also need a reformed religion and not be a tribal... but that should be obvious)

[Marcus]

thanks Random

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by Random:

nope.

Absolute control = no voting required to put in late feudal administration.

For conclave all you need is legalism 3 and a yes vote on late fuedal admin, and you got primo.

(well obviously you also need a reformed religion and not be a tribal... but that should be obvious)

Other requirements are that your current king has ruled for at least 10 years, you must be at peace, no vassal vount or above has a negative opinion of you, and your vassals cannot be fighting each other. Then you can change succession law.

[gregoryk64]

Aother note about primogeniture succession... DO NOT let your primary heir leave your court. Do not marry them off to a countess or a duchess, or grant them their own title. I made that mistake against my better judgment in my current game and it nearly resulted in game over.

I married my heir off to a countess in Norway. He left for her court, they had two daughters. His wife died, my son refused to return to court. He then remarried matrilineally the heir to another duchy. They had a son. Later my son and heir died.

As I had primogeniture succession, my new heir was my grandson and not of my dynasty and my king was 63 years old. If he dies, game over. I can't change succession law because I'm stuck in a war my alliance with Italy dragged me into. All I can do is wait and hope my old king lives long enough for the war to end.

Fortunately the war did end before he died and I was able to change succession law to ultimogeniture. New heir was my youngest son. Not my first choice but at least he was of my dynasty and the game could continue.

Moral of the story: Keeping your heir in your court allows you to control who your heir marries, how his children are educated, and if you live long enough who his children marry. If I had done that in the first place I would never have ended up in a succession crisis. Will not make that mistake again.

[Marcus]

Yeah not sure bout Primo as the first born can often not be the best candidate for the job! Always gone for Elective and have always managed to get my choice voted to take over but that was in normal games.

I find Elective much more tricky and unpredictable in ironman mode so that why I consider Primo!

[NewbieOne]

I have to agree about the dangers of letting your oldest out on primo. This used to be different, but AI has never really been a strong side of CK2. There's a chance the wife will send your son off to a holy order or do something else like that. If he's widowed, there's a chance of getting married to a random courtier or lowborn 20 years his senior, a pretty frequent occurrence in CK2.

There's another reason not to use him for dowry hunting for titles: uncertainty, from so many factors, notably:

factions (this can include folding to demands of weak factions);
claimants, including liege getting claims and revoking (this means you can get a single county instead of a duchy, where the new duke has a top liege much more powerful than you are);
many ways of possible change to succession laws before you inherit and difficulty predicting it;
infidelity by wife and/or she might legitimize a bastard of hers.

Giving him his own stuff isn't horrible, as long as you don't stand to permanently lose direct control over important targets. It's good to have a sort of 'Principality of Wales' as training ground for your heir instead of having to give up parts of your normal demesne. But in that case you need to make sure your heir isn't going to be outmanned by factions and by your other vassals, whose alliances can sometimes be pretty huge. Watching your own eldest son and their future king/emperor getting attacked by fellow vassals for claims is quite deppressing, as it reminds you quite painfully of the limitations of the game's AI and design in general.

Elective is good but yeah, unpredictable. After the various nerfs it's difficult to avoid losing your top titles.

[Marcus]

Thanks just another question my current heir only has one legimtimized bastard son long story check out my Ironman post earlier!

Not looking at changing to Primo under current ruler as he only has one legitimized bastard son so far but could a legitimate bastard first born son qualify as legitimate heir under Primo?

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by LaBern:

Thanks just another question my current heir only has one legimtimized bastard son long story check out my Ironman post earlier!

Not looking at changing to Primo under current ruler as he only has one legitimized bastard son so far but could a legitimate bastard first born son qualify as legitimate heir under Primo?

Yes. And the legitimized bastard may not be of your dynasty.

[Captain_Narol]

The perfect solution is to marry your first born to an heir and then land him to avoid that he leaves your kingdom.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by Captain Narol:

The perfect solution is to marry your first born to an heir and then land him to avoid that he leaves your kingdom.

But if you land him you still lose control and increase the potential of him doing something stupid. Like adopting the seduction focus, fathering a litter of bastards and contracting the great pox. Or if his wife dies and he then decides to marry his cousin, producing a line of mutant inbreds.

Nope. I still say it's better to keep him on a tight leash at court.

[☭Woodsman☭]

What I do as primo is find a suitable wife for my kids first, then build them a castle within my own realm to counter the issues others are speaking of. If the first wife dies, they will be the ones to decide on their wife from there, but I still don't usually run into serious problems this way.

[JC]

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

Originally posted by Captain Narol:

The perfect solution is to marry your first born to an heir and then land him to avoid that he leaves your kingdom.

But if you land him you still lose control and increase the potential of him doing something stupid. Like adopting the seduction focus, fathering a litter of bastards and contracting the great pox. Or if his wife dies and he then decides to marry his cousin, producing a line of mutant inbreds.

Nope. I still say it's better to keep him on a tight leash at court.

Yea, it is easier,. take the prestigue hit, then give him some honory titles, and money if you really need to keep him happy.

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by JC:

Originally posted by gregoryk64:

But if you land him you still lose control and increase the potential of him doing something stupid. Like adopting the seduction focus, fathering a litter of bastards and contracting the great pox. Or if his wife dies and he then decides to marry his cousin, producing a line of mutant inbreds.

Nope. I still say it's better to keep him on a tight leash at court.

Yea, it is easier,. take the prestigue hit, then give him some honory titles, and money if you really need to keep him happy.

The funny thing is, I rarely have a problem with my children's opinion of me if I keep them unlanded and at court. It's only when I grant them a title that opinion will take a hit, since once they've got one county the little turds always want more.

And the prestige hit on unlanded sons under primo is a joke. What is it, a -0.8 per month per unlanded son? An average to decent king farts that much prestige before breakfast. And if you have 3 or 4 unlanded sons, keep your heir and the second in line at court, then marry the rest off to duchesses and countesses. Once they leave your court for their wives they no longer count toward the unlanded sons penalty. Or you could always make them bishops if you want them completely out of succession.