Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

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What to do as a tribal leader?
I recently bought some DLC and wanted to try my hand at being a Tribal society and I was completely overwhelmed. I didn't exactly know what to do and why I should do it. I wanted to try and form the Kingdom of Norge, but House Yingling came and put a stop to that.

General tips or something?

1) How do I deal with having basically no money or prestige?
1a) I tried raiding in England but my army was easily routed.

2) Do these warriors that are raised via the Council have to be used for a specific thing?


3) Is it possible to keep a large demense throughout generations? (Gavelkind makes it seem like that would be hard)

4) Is reforming into a Feudal society the planned endgame? Or can I just keep conquering and subjagating people until I am and Empire?
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Myrmuz [IRL] Feb 19, 2017 @ 3:31pm 
1) Raiding. You need to stay in the target province for a little while, then run as soon as his troops appear. It's easier with ships.
If you switch the map to economy mode you can see where the richest pickings are.
You can also ransom any prisoners you capture.
Tribal holding improvements are also built with prestige and raiding will get you a lot of prestige so use it.

2) Yes, raiding or fighting holy wars depending on whether your marshal or your seer raised them.

3) In order to change succession law as norse unreformed pagan you will need to reform the germanic faith.. which will allow you to adopt feudalism which will allow you to change succession law.
This can take a while though, so you're better off having just one higher-tier title. That way your heir will get that title and your other sons will become his vassals. If you have two titles of the same rank (2 jarldoms for example) your heir will get one and another son will get the other and become independent: you'll lose his territory.
So don't create 2+ duchies/kingdoms until you have your realm sorted out correctly. Stay as a duke with a bunch of vassal counts if necessary.

4) You can stay tribal, but you will end up much weaker, I think due to technology. I'm not 100% on the government differences though.
The 2500 tribal army becomes weak fast.
Ninthshadow Feb 19, 2017 @ 5:02pm 
Seems like you got most of the questions answered.

Originally posted by Myrmuz IRL:
You can stay tribal, but you will end up much weaker, I think due to technology. I'm not 100% on the government differences though.
The 2500 tribal army becomes weak fast.

I guess I can ramble some extra information out. Unfortunately it means the short answer to 4) is basically "Yes, going feudal is basically the late game goal".

Tech is one part: Below miltary organisation 4 there's crippling attrition in pagan lands. What is essentially a DoT makes you almost unattackable... for a little while. After that, you are free game. Tribe vs feudal is a lot tougher without it. Tribal Ireland vs feudal England is a pretty clear-cut example of that.

The biggest element here is Tribal levies consist mostly of light infantry. These are widely regarded as... "below average" to put it kindly. Meanwhile, feudal lords get a hefty chunk of heavy infantry straight off the bat, with scarier units (like heavy cavalry) down the line as they upgrade their holdings.

Quantity over quality only gets you so far. From what I recall of one game, my holdings were starting to cap out when Feudal's were only just getting started.

The short version is there's a list of reasons unreformed pagan rulers don't last in the long run. There's a bunch of things stopping them from keeping up. Many of them related to being tribal. Mostly the Levy composition, one way religious conversion (Pagan to anything else) and forced Gavelkind making every succession hurt.

The solution to all the pagan's problems is solved by reforming and by extension, going feudal off it. Or republic, if that's their thing.

The tricky part is doing it before the time-crunch by all of the above kicks in.

Or you could convert. But that's the easy way out, isn't it?
What is reforming the Germanic faith? I would assume that means getting your holy leader into a position of power, but I remember it saying that Germanic can not have a holy leader.
Banecroft Feb 19, 2017 @ 8:11pm 
1) Try raiding in Ireland, most of the counties are independant so no help will come to them and it will allow your army to actually siege the holdings down. Each county in Ireland has a temple and sieging those down can make you alright money. Islands are also good places, as they might not get much help. Rome can be raided. Venice is probably one of the best spots to raid. No one is going to help them and you should be able to raid down every holding in the county.

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Raiding

2) Yes, depending on what gets raised. Holy warriors require you to go to war with someone not of your religion, the raiders need to start raiding.

3) You can game gavelkind. Don't get married unless the woman is 46 and thus won't be having kids. If you have the Way of Life DLC don't take a concubine either. Instead take the seduction focus and make a lot of bastards, when you have one that you like, legitimize them and you have your heir. If you do not have Way of Life DLC take a concubine and as soon as you have a son set her aside. Hopefully nothing bad happens to the son!

4) You can stay tribal for a long time, in general it is a good idea to stay tribal until you can upgrade a lot of your holdings. When you do turn feudal those upgrades will carry over to your castle and you won't have to deal with an empty holding.

Although for me I cannot stand being tribal for long because elective gavelkind is crap. I always try to reform the faith as quickly as possible and hopefully at around the same time I am also close to forming the Empire of Scandinavia.

Originally posted by Sentry The Defiant:
What is reforming the Germanic faith? I would assume that means getting your holy leader into a position of power, but I remember it saying that Germanic can not have a holy leader.
Reforming the Germanic faith will make your character the "pope" of the Germanic religion, allowing you to personally call Great Holy Wars (once they unlock) which can allow you to take a Kingdom every 30 years.

For more info check out the following link: http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Pagans
and scroll down to the part about Reformation.
Last edited by Banecroft; Feb 19, 2017 @ 8:30pm
Sentry The Defiant Feb 20, 2017 @ 10:29am 
Seems like no matter what I do, House Yingling always comes and takes me over. And at like 600 troops, I can't raid Rome or Venice.
Shai-Hulud Feb 20, 2017 @ 10:58am 
Originally posted by Sentry The Defiant:
Seems like no matter what I do, House Yingling always comes and takes me over. And at like 600 troops, I can't raid Rome or Venice.

Haraldr Yngling or one of his sons creates norge in 99% of the ck2 games I've played. I don't think he is scripted to do it-but he is BY FAR in the best position to do so.

Are you completely averse to just playing as fairhair?
Banecroft Feb 20, 2017 @ 11:15am 
Originally posted by Sentry The Defiant:
Seems like no matter what I do, House Yingling always comes and takes me over. And at like 600 troops, I can't raid Rome or Venice.
You can still raid most places, you just won't be able to siege down the holdings, as you should still be able to get some/all of the gold that is unprotected by the fort level before enemy troops arrive to stop you. As someone else said, when you see a dangerous number of troops heading your way get back on the ship and go find another target. With only 600 raiders I would stick to raiding in England/Ireland and carefully in northern France.
JC Feb 20, 2017 @ 12:28pm 
to raid, you just need to pick small kingdoms.. aka, one or two tile dutchies.. France, england, scottland, eire are all good places
I guess I'm supposed to take my guys and just hit coastal county after county, and run at the first sight of a fight?

And I guess I can play as House Yingling, I just like trying to go against the grain of history in CK2.
Shai-Hulud Feb 20, 2017 @ 2:20pm 
Originally posted by Sentry The Defiant:
I guess I'm supposed to take my guys and just hit coastal county after county, and run at the first sight of a fight?

And I guess I can play as House Yingling, I just like trying to go against the grain of history in CK2.

You might consider starting as one of his vassals. Or swearing fealty to him (then working to undermined him, maybe wait til he has a few sons and give him a succession crisis) if you cant secure the alliances to deter him.
Last edited by Shai-Hulud; Feb 20, 2017 @ 2:21pm
I guess I need to concede that I suck or something. Tried again, this time as a vassal to Yingling. Tribal armies or so incredibly weak for it costing 500 prestige to raise them.
JC Feb 20, 2017 @ 3:24pm 
Originally posted by Sentry The Defiant:
I guess I'm supposed to take my guys and just hit coastal county after county, and run at the first sight of a fight?

And I guess I can play as House Yingling, I just like trying to go against the grain of history in CK2.


If you attack single dutchies, there is no need to run. just have enough troops to seige the land, and they won't raise troops and attack.

I dunno what start year you are in.. but basically like 800 troops should be enough. Dyfed, Cornwall, devon, gwyned, kent, norhtern france arae of britany are all perfectly raidable in the late 700's to 800's By the time you get into the later 800 you should have plenty of troops to raid places like Essex, York, Northumbria, East angelia.. ect By that time you should have plenty of troops to add a stack or 2k to 2-3 areas so they can't raise troops.. Just have enough ships to haul back the 1k+ gold you are going to get at that point.. early, you can raid with a stack of ships about 15, but better to have 20-30, so you don't need to bother to send um back to drop off gold when they fill up..


Take over another country, then you have 2 to use for troops.. and upgrade warcamps first.. when you die.. just revoke the title if they split between sons
Last edited by JC; Feb 20, 2017 @ 3:25pm
Segovax Feb 20, 2017 @ 7:02pm 
If you want to stay tribal and switch out of Elective Gavelkind early, bank 1500 prestige via raiding, convert to catholic, institute standard Gavelkind, then switch back for 1k prestige.

Tribal is virtually unplayable a few generations in otherwise, unless you maintain zero vassals to prevent utterly irrational voting. I really wish they'd get rid of that POS gamey nonsense.
Last edited by Segovax; Feb 20, 2017 @ 7:02pm
Random Feb 20, 2017 @ 10:35pm 
Yeah, elective gravelkind is aids, and the reformed religion requirement to change to normal gravelkind is rather short sighted (from a gameplay PoV).

A tribal ruler with a reformed pagan religion is interesting, especially for cultures that have advantageous succession options; tanistry for example for celtic... or does that disable with a pagan religion as well? never really looked into it too much personally, as I like reformed pagan religions and feudalism, all the power of pagan with feudal troops; ezgame.
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Date Posted: Feb 19, 2017 @ 3:13pm
Posts: 18