Is the speed arcade accurate for everyone?

[moonscience]

Picked up this and Twin Cobra. I've sunk a lot of time into both games over the decades and something is bothering me with both these ports. They both seem to be running slightly on the fast side. I've got Truxton on both mame and mister fpga, and while I can't run them side by side, there's definitely that sense that when you start up a game in the arcade version (there are several arcade boards so this could be a variable) that your ship is moving quite slow and you're really hurting until you grab that first S. I'm not quite getting that with the Bitwave version. This seems to be moving along at a pretty good clip right out of the gate. This could be a very minor difference, or maybe I'm just imagining it???

[Doc Holiday]

Originally posted by moonscience:

that your ship is moving quite slow and you're really hurting until you grab that first S. I'm not quite getting that with the Bitwave version.

I'm getting that with this version. Ship moves slow before the first S, like the arcade game. You are imagining it.

It's accurate to me.

[Steven]

I checked Out Zone against my real Out Zone arcade PCB and it's too fast on PC at 60Hz, as the game's speed seems tied to refresh rate, as expected. The rest are almost certainly also too fast at 60Hz.

[Steven]

Out Zone runs at about 55Hz. There is a noticeable and significant speed difference between the PCB and PC at 60Hz. If you don't believe me, go buy your own Out Zone PCB to test it yourself and you'll see how quickly they fall out of sync with each other.

[moonscience]

Truxton runs at 57.4 or so. Really need to do side by side comparisons. And then of course there's the genesis version burned into my memory!

@Doc Holiday--I hadn't thought about the refresh rate of the toaplan games but the early cave games DEFINITLEY don't run at 60hz and is IS a problem with emulation. There's no question about the quality of these ports, but IF there is a noticeable difference I think the developers would want to know.

[Jeneki]

Yeah this sort of thing is common in pcb land, I have some Seibu stuff (Raiden series) that runs at 54hz. These days it makes me nervous every time I boot it up, considering how old the hardware is.

[76561199182493504]

Originally posted by moonscience:

Picked up this and Twin Cobra. I've sunk a lot of time into both games over the decades and something is bothering me with both these ports. They both seem to be running slightly on the fast side. I've got Truxton on both mame and mister fpga, and while I can't run them side by side, there's definitely that sense that when you start up a game in the arcade version (there are several arcade boards so this could be a variable) that your ship is moving quite slow and you're really hurting until you grab that first S. I'm not quite getting that with the Bitwave version. This seems to be moving along at a pretty good clip right out of the gate. This could be a very minor difference, or maybe I'm just imagining it???

Originally posted by Doc Holiday:

Originally posted by moonscience:

that your ship is moving quite slow and you're really hurting until you grab that first S. I'm not quite getting that with the Bitwave version.

I'm getting that with this version. Ship moves slow before the first S, like the arcade game. You are imagining it.

It's accurate to me.

Originally posted by Steven:

I checked Out Zone against my real Out Zone arcade PCB and it's too fast on PC at 60Hz, as the game's speed seems tied to refresh rate, as expected. The rest are almost certainly also too fast at 60Hz.

Originally posted by Doc Holiday:

"Too fast" seems very hyperbolic to me.

What's the frequency of the arcade board? Is it around 59.410645Hz?

You mean there is a significant difference between 59.410645Hz and 60hz?

Maybe this 0.6 Hz difference will affect your 10 loop world record high score counterstop?

Seems good enough to me, specially for the price.

Originally posted by moonscience:

Truxton runs at 57.4 or so. Really need to do side by side comparisons. And then of course there's the genesis version burned into my memory!

@Doc Holiday--I hadn't thought about the refresh rate of the toaplan games but the early cave games DEFINITLEY don't run at 60hz and is IS a problem with emulation. There's no question about the quality of these ports, but IF there is a noticeable difference I think the developers would want to know.

Originally posted by Jeneki:

Yeah this sort of thing is common in pcb land, I have some Seibu stuff (Raiden series) that runs at 54hz. These days it makes me nervous every time I boot it up, considering how old the hardware is.

Reading it all and taking notes. Thanks!

[moonscience]

Guess I'm not hallucinating, games are running about 10% too fast: https://youtu.be/752uYu2uBuQ?t=1030

[xtng3rd_m_n]

Hello.

I am looking at a Japanese Truxton (Tatsujin) so I know how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA-j9u0sjz0

Here are the actual measurements to clear stage 1
Arcade version: 347sec(5:47)
Steam version: 332sec(5:32)

If the Steam version is 60hz, the Arcade version is 57.406300hz.
This is a problem caused by the hardware design and will be difficult to solve.
I hope you can fix it.

[eldahi]

Hello, global good adaptation of this famous Shmup - The vertical scrolling is smooth but sometimes bullets acceleratre et sound disappear - I agree it exist different PCB of the game
May be the editor has developed this version with bootleg version of TRUXTON

[That Gaming Guy]

Im currently playing the Toaplan games on Steamdeck. im thinking that if framerate is tied to refresh rate i can just adjust my refresh to 55, 57, 59hz etc for a more accurate speed. The Steamdeck allows the user to choose any refresh rate between 60-40hz and the framerate matches it.

[SeeNoWeevil]

With G-Sync enabled the game runs at 60Hz in FSE mode and full refresh (e.g 120Hz) when using borderless mode. It would be nice if the game ran at the correct 57Hz when variable sync is enabled (both FSE and borderless).

Surely on a fixed refresh 60Hz display you would need some frame duplication to retain the correct speed?

[MrΩ]

Originally posted by SeeNoWeevil:

Surely on a fixed refresh 60Hz display you would need some frame duplication to retain the correct speed?

With vulkan3D hardware, you cannot expect to have a presentation feedback (unless the presentation feedback interface is available). It means the game engine cannot know when to duplicate a frame. Namely, the game engine can only use the OS timer services (or directly the hardware rdtsc). It usually means audio and video drifts: with a nice audio resampling library, the audio drift should not be hearable, and with really high refresh rate, the video drift should be benign.

Basically, the "video update" rate should be separated from the "gameplay update" rate... if the original game code is not hardcoded to use only the "video update" rate as its "gameplay update" rate.

[Chili Gutiérrez]

is there a known issue for controllers playing on MAC ? my controllers dont seem to like these games

[76561199182493504]

Originally posted by Chili Gutiérrez:

is there a known issue for controllers playing on MAC ? my controllers dont seem to like these games

Hi! What controllers are you using?