Why does this game have loot?

[Sloom]

Usually loot is meant to be rewarding and meaningful, but in this game it just gets in the way. You are encouraged to not use the loot you find, until you have a very very good set for a particular bracket... And in the end gear has effectively has no meaning or purpose.

Because of the brackets, you're encouraged to not play in a bracket until you have a good great set for that bracket ( for example, if the bracket was 100-300, this heavily encourages you to play grear sets close to 300, and as far from 100 as possible). So everyone in your bracket will naturally have very similar gear, at very similar power levels so... Why even have gear?

It seems that the PvP balance and loot based gameplay are directly opposed so... Make it one or the other? The PvP gameplay will either be unbalanced by the loot, or the loot will be made meaningless in an attempt at PvP balance.

It seems like the recent GS based lobbies are in favor of PvP balance, so why not just remove loot? It just is getting in the way of a smoother PvP experience.

[Cirno]

Originally posted by Sloom:

for example, if the bracket was 100-300, this heavily encourages you to play grear sets close to 300, and as far from 100 as possible

Just want to point out a possible misunderstanding here - there are no such brackets as 100-300 or similar. The game uses gear-based matchmaking only in normal dungeons, and there are only two such brackets: gear score <= 25 and gear score >25. High-roller has no gear-based matchmaking, you queue with everyone else. They experimented with more granular brackets at one point, before the Steam release, but everyone hated it and the idea was scrapped.

[Sloom]

Of course! As I said IF the bracket was...

It's a hypothetical to point out the problems with GS based matchmaking. Not to complain about individual breakpoints. Or, moreso, the conflict between GS based matchmaking and a loot focused game.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

In short, the loot is hurting the PvP gameplay, and the PvP gameplay is hurting the loot experience. Both end up feeling worse.

[Deus Irae Infernus]

If i recall from a wiki, there ARE brackets. Just at the moment 3. There is what I refer to as "starter", <25GS; Low GS, Which goes up to <300GS; and High GS, >300. Gear has a tremendous weight to it if a player has their bonuses in the right places. So as soon as someone puts on a green weapon after the "Starter" bracket, they could very well get thrown in with players with up to a 299GS.

[Sloom]

Originally posted by Deathtroth:

Also Just Like In Tarkov, Better Loot = More Numbers = Higher Chance To Live In PvP.

GBMM Isnt Perfect, But It Certainly Helps New People Not Get Pub Stomped.

Your first point is exactly what I would want from loot, but that isn't how it works. Currently, better loot=more numbers=higher chance to live... UNTIL IT DOESNT. In the 100-300 example. All the better grear you get from 100-299 feels better and helps, but when you got 301, your grear is actively hurting you in PvP. You'd be better off using worse gear or buying gear at the top of the next bracket before playing. As someone else pointed out this is the worst for new players. After finding your first 1-2 greens, you are thrown in the 25-299 grear bracket. Why would you ever equip gear you find until you have a set of 250gs+?

To your second point, can you explain how it prevents pub stomping?

[Sloom]

So you're saying the brackets are basically BiS and non-bis? How is that helpful in any way? Certainly the gap between running whites and full purples but not quite BiS is huge? And if it's not the why have loot. If the loot matters, it hurts pvp gameplay, if it doesn't then the loot is useless why have it? You can't have it both ways (the loot being meaningful, and not having an impact on the PvP experience)

Couldn't good players who want to stomp still just Smurf with sub-25 gear? And even according to you... A team in full purples could do this to a new player... If that new player equipped 1-2 greens...

[Sweets]

Last I check there is only 1 bracket and thats greys-commons at 24gs.

You want to power up via gear and the reason for it is to compete for rank and demigod status each wipe.

Honestly you should scrap/sell off gear if it does not really work around your play style and has stats you do not use or really defines your class

[Sloom]

Originally posted by Deathtroth:

If Youre Running All Whites You Will Not Be Fighting People With Purples. Any Purple Bumps You Up Past 25 And All Whites Is ~20.

But if you equip two greens...?

But this fundamentally all doesn't matter to the point that there is no reason to have loot. It just hurts the game, what good is it doing?

[Sloom]

Originally posted by Deathtroth:

Originally posted by Sloom:

But if you equip two greens...?

You're Choosing To Do That.

Yes!!! This a million times, so why would you do it??? I'm saying the loot system sucks. This is bad. Do you think you're convincing me it's not? "Your choosing to use loot, sucks to be you."

Using the loot actively hurts you, that's my point, unless you have a full set, why would you equip two greens you found. This actively makes you not want to use loot, it hurts the loot experience.

And to be clear, you equip two greens because in most games, equiping new grear means big numbers and a relatively stronger character. It doesn't mean that in this game. The loot system is whack, just remove it.

[Sweets]

Originally posted by Sloom:

Originally posted by Deathtroth:

If Youre Running All Whites You Will Not Be Fighting People With Purples. Any Purple Bumps You Up Past 25 And All Whites Is ~20.

But if you equip two greens...?

But this fundamentally all doesn't matter to the point that there is no reason to have loot. It just hurts the game, what good is it doing?

I don't get how you think gear does not matter

[Sloom]

So to be clear, were saying that despite greens and blues actively hurting your gameplay experience (putting you against people with better gear). We think that the loot is fun?

We are excited when we get our first greens as a new player and get to go against 299gs enemies?

If your answer is "no, that's a crappy experience" then great were on the same page. The loot is actively hurting the PvP experience. Why have loot.

If you're answer is yes. I guess I wish I was as cool as you.

From my personal experience after about twenty hours, I don't use loot, why would I? Everyone has better loot than me so I'd just make the game harder. Best to save up a 299gs set before trying. So why do I have loot? I'm not saying I don't enjoy the game, I very much do... But having loot... Isn't rewarding in any way. And it's starting to become a burdon. Why am I spending so much time managing a stash... When I won't be using any great for another 20-30 hours of playtime? So much wasted time for a broken system, but keeping me from going back in and skating more.

[Handbanana]

The loot exists to make you have a better chance against other players as well as the bosses. The difference between fighting a boss in base kit vs full epics is massive.

[Sweets]

Originally posted by Sloom:

So to be clear, were saying that despite greens and blues actively hurting your gameplay experience (putting you against people with better gear). We think that the loot is fun?

We are excited when we get our first greens as a new player and get to go against 299gs enemies?

If your answer is "no, that's a shirt experience" then great were on the same page. The loot is actively hurting the PvP experience.

If you're answer is yes. I guess I wish I was as cool as you.

Sounds like you need wear better gear, going from greys to greens feels nice but going from greens to blues-purple feel even better and by that point you are not hurting. Your playing the game

[Sweets]

Originally posted by Handbanana:

The loot exists to make you have a better chance against other players as well as the bosses. The difference between fighting a boss in base kit vs full epics is massive.

The way this guy is talking he has never wore a set built for a build. I think were wasting time here

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by Sloom:

So to be clear, were saying that despite greens and blues actively hurting your gameplay experience (putting you against people with better gear). We think that the loot is fun?

We are excited when we get our first greens as a new player and get to go against 299gs enemies?

If your answer is "no, that's a crappy experience" then great were on the same page. The loot is actively hurting the PvP experience. Why have loot.

If you're answer is yes. I guess I wish I was as cool as you.

From my personal experience after about twenty hours, I don't use loot, why would I? Everyone has better loot than me so I'd just make the game harder. Best to save up a 299gs set before trying. So why do I have loot? I'm not saying I don't enjoy the game, I very much do... But having loot... Isn't rewarding in any way

You seem to be under the impression or even implying that having greens and fighting somebody in blues means you have zero chance to win. That is not how the game works. You can go in base kit and absolutely kill somebody even full purples if you play correctly. The gear itself just closes that gap a little bit.

To be completely honest the best use for good gear is making pve infinitely easier and faster to deal with.

Also you need to understand just because something is purple doesn't mean it is good. If you have purple gear and it all has bad stat rolls that don't effect your character you may as well be naked.

I would suggest you learn to play the game and understand the mechanics a bit better before you start to question the core mechanics of the game itself.

[Sloom]

The two main elements appear to be pvp and loot. I'm saying the loot actively hurts the PvP experience. I enjoy the PvP, I don't understand why there is loot. It only hurts the game in it's current form.

Glad you can't understand that, try to understand people complaints before commenting "well I guess the bad mechanic isn't for you, go play something else. We don't complain about bad mechanics here we just accept them, that's the game. "