How to counter rogue as a wizard?

[Beldarak]

I feel like every encounter with a rogue, as a wizard, is the same.

They pop out of nowhere, move 3x more quickly than me in my fabric gear, hit me 3000 times like they're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Ken from Fist of the North Star and it's just over in 2 seconds, no fun allowed.

So my question is: how do you counter them? Is there even a way? It seems once they're on me it's game over but since I can't see or hear them come, it's just impossible to avoid id.

Any tips?

[effusivemind]

yes, very possible. let us know which wiz build you are running first

[Beldarak]

I mainly play <25 and green/blue so nothing too serious in term of gear's build.

I use meditation (don't know if it's the best but it's so fun to run on PvE, especially since last update)

And as spells goes I take offensive stuffs (magic missiles for PvE, fireball, frost thing, chain lighting...) and invisibility for quick escape when possible

Passives are:

- Quick chant
- Man Surge
- Ice Shield
- Ice Mastery

I tried the reactive shield but it didn't seem to do much as it absorbs almost nothing and doesn't let me espace melee anyway.

[effusivemind]

Originally posted by Beldarak:

I mainly play <25 and green/blue so nothing too serious in term of gear's build.

I use meditation (don't know if it's the best but it's so fun to run on PvE, especially since last update)

And as spells goes I take offensive stuffs (magic missiles for PvE, fireball, frost thing, chain lighting...) and invisibility for quick escape when possible

Passives are:

- Quick chant
- Man Surge
- Ice Shield
- Ice Mastery

I tried the reactive shield but it didn't seem to do much as it absorbs almost nothing and doesn't let me espace melee anyway.

great. so let's go through this slowly.

Originally posted by Beldarak:

They pop out of nowhere

This is called their Hide skill. go to the DaD wiki and read what Hide does and then under perks read what Creep, Hide Mastery, Stealth and Ambush do. you need to understand this.

Originally posted by Beldarak:

So my question is: how do you counter them? Is there even a way?

rogues have the lowest will in the game, and the second lowest health in the game. they are very easy for wizs to kill if you can catch them out of Hide, and wizs are the only class that can take them out with Light Orb.

Light Orb works very well with Meditation build cuz you only have to meditate for ~1.5 sec to get all your Light Orb spell counts back even with Spell Overload. you will always have Light Orb ready when you need it. before you enter a room cast it inside, then cast it in multiple directions particularly dark areas after you've entered.

I would say that Light Orb is rly only necessary in 125+ GS norms or HR cuz most good rogues will be there. they realistically don't spend too much time in <25 cuz landmine is effective for killing many classes right now, and killing players and selling their gear is the best way to make gold currently.

with less experienced rogues in <25 you generally avoid them by not going into rooms that've already been cleared, and if you do, pay attention to whether or not torches have been unlit.

your build is pretty good. it's sounds like this is solos, if it is you shouldn't be using Chain Lightning. keep Ice Shield until you improve at handling rogues, once you get better against them you can change to something else if you want.

I would recommend playing with Arcane Mastery, though. you can realistically only get away with using Magic Missile against players who're moving closer to you if you have Arcane Mastery (until you start playing at higher GS) otherwise the cast time is too long, and it will also help with Invis cast time. with MM always aim for headshots.

know that if you get hit by them out of Hide you need to immediately crouch, cast Invis and run in the opposite direction. most don't expect this and then you'll have built at least some distance where you can nuke them, and as I said if you're able to cast at them they die very easily.

only run either Invis or Light Orb, not both. I would recommend keeping with Invis first while doing what I said since you can also use Invis in other situations. if you still continue to struggle switch to Light Orb.

the last thing you need to know is if a rogue hits you out of Hide and they're using Cut Throat you very likely die. Cut Throat has become much less popular since they buffed Weakpoint Attack but you need to be aware of this.

edited: see that you're already bringing Invis

[Aldain]

Light Orb and pray you see them before they see you.

Otherwise you're going to get turned into a pincushion.

[Ego-chan on Adderall]

Light orb, arcane shield, ignite. Other than that don't just w key into every room or place, especially if it's dark

[Major Lee Ree]

The only tip I can give against rogues for any class is to never put your weapon away but for you the Rogue is kind of the Wizard's hard counter class so you're always gonna be weak against them best thing for a Wizard to do is to just always play duo's/trios and stay on the back line.

[Beldarak]

Wow, thanks for the detailed answer effusivemind (and other people too for the little tips and tricks).

I'll try the invisibility crouching tip.

Didn't know the light orb removed hide, that's great, I've always tought wizards should have a way to counter invisibility, and here it is, always was possible :D

Regarding Chain Lighting we play duo and trio. often a duo of two wizards for the chaos and giggles :D

It's kinda effective on some situations which is why we both run it. Basically the plan is to use monsters at our advantage (easier to target than a player and the chain will hit the team behind it) and punish hard druids when they use the treant (not sure it's still worth it since they've been nerfed though). But you're right, when playing trio with our fighter friend, the spell is basically useless and a waste of a slot.

I'll try Arcane Mastery, see if I can fit it somewhere, maybe instead of ice mastery which I didn't yet really tried anyway.

[Double N'wah]

Your ice shield slows them if they attack you. Then you cast slow and frostbolt, now theyre dead.

[effusivemind]

Originally posted by Beldarak:

Regarding Chain Lighting we play duo and trio. often a duo of two wizards for the chaos and giggles :D

It's kinda effective on some situations which is why we both run it. Basically the plan is to use monsters at our advantage (easier to target than a player and the chain will hit the team behind it) and punish hard druids when they use the treant (not sure it's still worth it since they've been nerfed though). But you're right, when playing trio with our fighter friend, the spell is basically useless and a waste of a slot.

fully agree. Chain Lightning is extremely strong when used well.

also tend to drop it when I play with fighter or another frontline. I've been playing a lot of ranged comps like wiz-lock-bard or ranger-wiz-bard this patch since Chain Lightning is especially strong with Meditation.

Originally posted by Beldarak:

I'll try Arcane Mastery, see if I can fit it somewhere, maybe instead of ice mastery which I didn't yet really tried anyway.

feel free to let us know how it goes. one thing to know about Ice Mastery is it doesn't work currently if Ice Bolt hits the target while they're mid jump or falling. the visual animation for mastery goes off as normally but they can still move during that time after they land. hopefully they fix this bug at some point.

I still think it can be a strong perk. I don't personally run it at the moment but I know a lot of wizs do. Ice Mastery can be stronger with Spell Overload cuz you get more Ice Bolts, but it's also strong with Meditation cuz Ice Bolt spell counts regen very quickly compared to most other spells.

Originally posted by Beldarak:

Wow, thanks for the detailed answer effusivemind (and other people too for the little tips and tricks).

you're welcome fellow magic enthusiast.

Originally posted by Beldarak:

Didn't know the light orb removed hide, that's great, I've always tought wizards should have a way to counter invisibility, and here it is, always was possible :D

<=D

if you want to see some Light Orb Meditation gameplay JayGriffyuh on Twitch has been playing this build a lot recently. go on his page and click "Videos" and then go under Recent broadcasts, you'll be able to view his recordings for the previous days

[Boutus]

slow them, haste you, use spell book, its faster.