Urgently Need Skill-Based Matchmaking

[Niko Bellic]

Dear Devs,

This game desperately needs Skill-Based Matchmaking (SBMM). Seriously, don't listen to the hardcore no-lifers who claim otherwise—you'll end up losing your main casual audience. I absolutely love the concept and have tried the free version a bit, but I'm hesitant to invest too much time or money into a game where some pro player (read: no-lifer) annihilates me at the end of every map.

I mean, Hunt has SBMM. Even casual action games like CS or Overwatch have it. Battle royale games like PUBG have it. So why not your game? And let's be clear, gear-based matchmaking is not the same thing. In every action game, some players are 10 times better than others, even with identical gear. Let us noobs play with noobs and pros play with pros.

I adore your dark fantasy setting, but until SBMM is implemented, I’ll be heading back to Overwatch or Hunt. Thank you very much.

[Rikuto01]

You have GBMM already. You wont get both, it would divide the queues to the point no match ever filled.

No one is expecting you to be a god but at a certain point the responsibility is on you to improve. The tools are all there.

[Aldain]

I'm not really sure how you'd measure skill in this.

Especially when you have things like 360 bunny hops which conserve momentum where it shouldn't be (Bunny hopping Warlocks can tag you with DoTs while at full move speed with it) and factoring gear into the equation (like stacking move speed which can be a win condition far more often than many would care to admit) I just don't see what you'd actually measure.

[kafersaft]

I can't even begin to imagine how they would quantify skill in a game with so many random variables to every encounter. And that's before taking into consideration that any skill based match maker is going to be abused by people who don't want to play in the correct tier because.. omg they might lose!

[Niko Bellic]

Originally posted by Rikuto01:

You have GBMM already. You wont get both, it would divide the queues to the point no match ever filled.

No one is expecting you to be a god but at a certain point the responsibility is on you to improve. The tools are all there.

Originally posted by Aldain:

I'm not really sure how you'd measure skill in this.

Especially when you have things like 360 bunny hops which conserve momentum where it shouldn't be (Bunny hopping Warlocks can tag you with DoTs while at full move speed with it) and factoring gear into the equation (like stacking move speed which can be a win condition far more often than many would care to admit) I just don't see what you'd actually measure.

I don't need GBMM, thanks. Just ranked would work great; gear is not so important. I don't need "responsibility" to play Hunt or PUBG and feel I have fair chances to win. Why is it different here? And the more important question is how many players like me have the devs lost while ensuring that a few pro guys can kill noobs (or, for example, old players with slow reflexes like me) by the thousands.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I don't need GBMM, thanks.

Then prepare for an unceasing tide of getting one-shot by fully stacked all purple pubstompers because that's what it was like before Gear Score was implemented.

I'm personally in no rush to go back to those days of the playtests.

[Niko Bellic]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I don't need GBMM, thanks.

Then prepare for an unceasing tide of getting one-shot by fully stacked all purple pubstompers because that's what it was like before Gear Score was implemented.

I'm personally in no rush to go back to those days of the playtests.

I'm not sure how it was before, but if I understand your description correctly, there was no matchmaking at all. If there were skill-based (or just ranked) matchmaking, those who succeed (whether due to skill or gear) would quickly rise in the ranks and play against similar players, not noobs or players with poor gear. It's simple and elegant, and it's been around for a long time. I don't see the problem.

[Dirge]

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

Just ranked would work great; gear is not so important.

What? How long have you been playing? Gear is the most important thing in the game when it comes to fighting other players. It makes a massive difference in damage and damage absorption.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Saint Scorpio:

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

Just ranked would work great; gear is not so important.

What? How long have you been playing? Gear is the most important thing in the game when it comes to fighting other players. It makes a massive difference in damage and damage absorption.

To say nothing of Move Speed, which basically can let you literally run circles around your opponent if there's a big enough gap.

[Niko Bellic]

Originally posted by Saint Scorpio:

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

Just ranked would work great; gear is not so important.

What? How long have you been playing? Gear is the most important thing in the game when it comes to fighting other players. It makes a massive difference in damage and damage absorption.

We are talking about different things. I said gear is not so important for matchmaking. When your rank (read: win/loss ratio) is the most important number, your skill and gear are just parts of that overall ranking.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

Originally posted by Saint Scorpio:

What? How long have you been playing? Gear is the most important thing in the game when it comes to fighting other players. It makes a massive difference in damage and damage absorption.

We are talking about different things. I said gear is not so important for matchmaking. When your rank (read: win/loss ratio) is the most important number, your skill and gear are just parts of that overall ranking.

The thing you're missing is that gear gaps in 90% of cases are the biggest deciding factor in most PvP encounters.

The only time skill is even remotely a factor is when either neither party is geared much at all or both of them are loaded up completely, any gap in between those two points tends to cover up skill to varying degrees, often allowing for more or less margin of error depending on which side of the scales each player lands on.

[Oku]

Y’all never would have survived server browser days where if somebody capable of 1vAlling a whole lobby joined in it became a server event to take down the local raid boss.

People would be cackling in chat in awe at how good the guy is and laughing at how easily he killed them and you’d be crying at how unfair it is and demanding the server owner ban him for cheating or something.

I don’t want every single encounter in DaD to be with somebody perfectly equal to my skill level, I want those to be special moments that turn in to extended battles while people lower than me demonstrate how much better I’ve gotten while people higher than me become horror game juggernauts that I have to run away laughing from because they’re gonna smear me across the map if they catch me.

Those experiences are part of why games like this are fun.

[Niko Bellic]

Originally posted by Aldain:

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

We are talking about different things. I said gear is not so important for matchmaking. When your rank (read: win/loss ratio) is the most important number, your skill and gear are just parts of that overall ranking.

The thing you're missing is that gear gaps in 90% of cases are the biggest deciding factor in most PvP encounters.

It's very difficult to agree with this. What is this, an autobattler? In every action game, skill is very important. I'm pretty sure a skilled player with bad gear won't have a big problem with a geared noob here. Anyway, gear can help improve the most important number for matchmaking purposes – rank.

[effusivemind]

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I'm not sure how it was before, but if I understand your description correctly, there was no matchmaking at all. If there were skill-based (or just ranked) matchmaking, those who succeed (whether due to skill or gear) would quickly rise in the ranks

again, how do you define "succeed"?

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I don't see the problem.

the problem is this isn't a MOBA. your team doesn't objectively win or lose the dungeon, unless perhaps you all die, and K/D/A isn't necessarily the best way to gauge player skill.

if you look at the way AP is calculated currently it's a composite score for each individual player that independently weighs different metrics and this has changed from season to season. there is no clear consistent consensus on the value of each "objective" when you head into a dungeon, the devs have gone back and forth radically on this topic.

should you lose AP for dying even if you're rezzed and extract? should you be rewarded more for PvPing than PvEing and looting? if so, what matters most? kills, dmg, spell/hit accuracy %? how would you standardize that across classes? and how would you assess that for players aligned more towards support? should shrines continue to provide AP? what about other interactions?

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

We are talking about different things. I said gear is not so important for matchmaking. When your rank (read: win/loss ratio) is the most important number, your skill and gear are just parts of that overall ranking.

you've been asked to define how to quantify skill in this game and you've dodged the question while claiming you don't see SBMM as a problem.

it's likely win/loss ratio will be a fundamental core to their upcoming arena matchmaking where winning and losing is clearly defined and PvP is clearly the goal, but as far as dungeons this is not a very good answer.

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

It's simple and elegant

if it's so simple then why haven't you answered? how do you quantify skill in dungeons?

[effusivemind]

Originally posted by CrazyKami-TMX:

hehe i wasnt geared at all i came along some other player with fancy gear he wanna to kill me while i was on almost naked babarian.. i got 2 lucky headshots and he the warrior died :P

=o

[Niko Bellic]

Originally posted by effusivemind:

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I'm not sure how it was before, but if I understand your description correctly, there was no matchmaking at all. If there were skill-based (or just ranked) matchmaking, those who succeed (whether due to skill or gear) would quickly rise in the ranks

again, how do you define "succeed"?

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

I don't see the problem.

the problem is this isn't a MOBA. your team doesn't objectively win or lose the dungeon, unless perhaps you all die, and K/D/A isn't necessarily the best way to gauge player skill.

if you look at the way AP is calculated currently it's a composite score for each individual player that independently weighs different metrics and this has changed from season to season. there is no clear consistent consensus on the value of each "objective" when you head into a dungeon, the devs have gone back and forth radically on this topic.

should you lose AP for dying even if you're rezzed and extract? should you be rewarded more for PvPing than PvEing and looting? if so, what matters most? kills, dmg, spell/hit accuracy %? how would you standardize that across classes? and how would you assess that for players aligned more towards support? should shrines continue to provide AP? what about other interactions?

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

We are talking about different things. I said gear is not so important for matchmaking. When your rank (read: win/loss ratio) is the most important number, your skill and gear are just parts of that overall ranking.

you've been asked to define how to quantify skill in this game and you've dodged the question while claiming you don't see SBMM as a problem.

it's likely win/loss ratio will be a fundamental core to their upcoming arena matchmaking where winning and losing is clearly defined and PvP is clearly the goal, but as far as dungeons this is not a very good answer.

Originally posted by Niko Bellic:

It's simple and elegant

if it's so simple then why haven't you answered? how do you quantify skill in dungeons?

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